"Cowardice asks the question...is it safe? Expediency asks the question...is it politic? Vanity asks the question...is it popular? But conscience asks the question...is it right? And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but one must take it because it is right." ~Dr. Martin Luther King

Monday 16 April 2012

Clarification

KA-NON has left a new comment on your post "Fencing The Park":

The following is not meant to be an argument for or against the Jazz+ festival, or its use of Town Park, per se.

Seems like there are competing ideas at play.

One, we should charge for the use of the park. This, council has affirmed by refusing to waive the user fee for the Jazz+ festival.

Two, we should never fence off the park to the public. I think that you might have intimated that something in our bylaws, or in come covenant to the deed dating back to when the park was bestowed on the town prohibits it.

We can't have it both ways.

IF we charge a group to use it, then we must allow them the sole use of it for the time period that they are paying for it. When someone rents the ice, or the pool lanes, or whatever, they are afforded sole access. Same should apply here. Public skaters cannot just step on the ice during a minor hockey game.


If that is the case, it shouldn't matter whether it is fenced or not. It is for the use of those with the permit, and none other than those permitted by the permit holder shall enter.

We have to choose whether or not we want to rent the park out, or keep it for public use 100% of the time.

***************

The fee charged is not for  use of the park.

It pays for parks staff to prepare an area for the users. Picnic tables,
garbage bins are  brought to the area. The park is tidied up immediately before the  event and  after.

When the Wells Street School  had their last graduation party at the park , there were reports of beer bottles, broken and whole  scattered everywhere.Plenty of clean-up.

They asked for and received  a waiver of the fees.

The town park has the additional amenity of a band shell fully equipped for music and entertainment. If it's rented to one group, it will not be rented to another. 

There are additional costs for the park or part of the park to be used
for a special event. If the fee is not paid, taxpayers absorb the cost. If fees are waived often enough, inevitably an increase if fees
must  be calculated to balance the books.

Some people asked to get it for nothing. People who don't pay their share and  a share for  the cheapskates. 

Soccer associations pay fees. Baseball associations also. It is a commitment and a principle.  The town provides the facility.  Special users pay a fee.

Walking a child or a dog or throwing a ball  or a frisby, or  having  game of tag or hide and go seek ,are not prohibited  nor is lolling  under the shade of  an old oak  tree. 

The fee is for  extra work involved in  preparing the space and cleaning up after its  use.

If several groups wanted to use the same space, on the same day ,
like fun and games  for the last day of school,  that  could be a problem and co-operation is required.

Division of the park with chain link fence is not an option.

The only reason for fencing the park for the jazz festival is revenue
for the organizers.

No-one is allowed in to listen to the music unless they pony up  for $5. admission.

That is not the purpose of a public park.

The town could use that opportunity to make money out of  summer concerts.

We don't.

We ask local business to  sponsor the concerts.

They do.

The concerts in the park started as an idea from the Toronto Musicians Union who offered  service at a minimal cost.

For almost fifty years that I know about , people have been enjoying  music  in the  park while  children played  and enjoyed an ice cream cone or a hot dog or a hamburger or a bunch of sticky candy floss. 

For longer than that, people have enjoyed music at the seaside, on  the pier,  along  with Punch and Judy  shows.

 In Windsor,the band plays down by the riverside with beautiful floral displays and boats passing leisurely up and down the river.

In San Francisco, strolling minstrels entertain the crowds at Pier One.

I could go on and on. Just to make the point.

Fencing off a public space in order to collect an admission charge for listening to ambient music is not the norm.

We have been  providing a free venue with all amenities for a professional  music and entertainment service, to make a living.

That some people volunteer their time on an August bank holiday
does not make it less of a commercial venture.

23 comments:

Anonymous said...

I have to agree with Ka-non here. It seems to me that you can't have it both ways.

How can a "user fee" (your words) not be charged for the "use" of the park?

Picnic tables, garbage bins etc. are already in the park. Others pay a user fee to use the ball diamond. This is no different. There is, I assume, daily cleanup of the park already so this cannot be any additional staff.

Who pays for the fence? The Town or that damn St Kitts woman :-)?

By the way, "Fencing off a public space in order to collect an admission charge for listening to ambient music is not the norm.". I guess you have not been to this event - of course you haven't. This is far from ambient music. It is interactive.

KA-NON said...

Hmmm. I guess there is a contract then, right? When you rent anything else in town, like the ice, or the pool lanes, I believe that there is a contract, which describes what it is the renting party is paying for.

What does the contract say in this case? Will it describe the USE of the park, or will it describe only the SETUP and CLEANUP of the park?

If, as you say, it only describes the latter, then I don't see how they can erect a fence.

Can you get your hands on the contract from last year, or the year before, and share with us what it includes? That must be public information, right?

BTW and FWIW, I am not necessarily offended that the festival performers make money. Many of the private swimming teachers that pay for and use our lanes are earning a living doing so. Same with many of the skating instructors I suspect. Also, it provides something that people are willing to pay for, and adds to the quality of life in the town.
It shouldn't matter whether we like or dislike some of the organizers/performers. The principle should be consistent.

Something Fishy in Aurora said...

Don’t pay the fee, stand outside the fence and listen to the music…..

Anonymous said...

Please note that listing your great number of volunteers no longer impresses an audience. We all have kids/grandkids who get their community service marks any way they chose but they do have to acquire a certain number in order to graduate. They can help out in soup kitchens, collect trash, the list is endless. But these organizers must stop using ' volunteers ' as a measure of success.
A further thought re the extension of the park permit for the Jazz people. It may sit well with Council members but we neighbours have learned to live the the current 3 days. After that length of time, we would request it be returned for our daily use and that of the rest of Aurora. No one has asked us even as a courtesy and I find that annoying.
So, please, Councillors, consult those who are impacted and fight among yourselves.

Anonymous said...

To change the subject just a bit:

After reading former Councillor and twice-defeated candidate for Mayor Nigel Kean's letter in this week's Auroran, I would like to suggest that he undergo a rectal examination to determine if his brain has slipped out of its traditional position.

Anonymous said...

We really should not have forgotten about Nigel and his link with the others. He's back in the Auroran. Not a bright move but it's his call to make.

Anonymous said...

OMG
They were counting on Nigel for back-up? Knew there had to be more garbage, but Nigel? Yes ,Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.

Anonymous said...

It appears that the most abusive Council Aurora has ever seen has decided to create a fight over abused women and who owns their bodies and souls. We simply cannot do that - Mayor Dawe should take no ' orders' from Nasty Nigel and Nasty Nigel should take no more orders from his handlers. This is all smoke and mirrors using people who are not involved and damn well do not want to be involved. They would do well to remember that they do not speak for US.

Anonymous said...

Who's Nigel?

Anonymous said...

We are experiencing a spate of incredibly stupid letter writing. To the original question when someone asked if Ballard was dumb enough to post the Aurora Guy attack on Mayor Dawe, the Auroran reveals the answer to be a resounding ' Yes! '

Anonymous said...

How many councillors will exchange pleasantries with councillor Ballard this evening?

Anonymous said...

Why does the respected newspaper the Auroran, provide space on its pages to yesterday's man, Nigel Kean, even when its context goes a long way to destroying the viper-cub, in Ballard's company no less?

This failed former politician should have been taken out with the trash ages ago.

Anonymous said...

Now this is weird. Evalina and Phyllis consider Nigel to be an Auroran rube. I actually agree with them this time.

Anonymous said...

Totally our of context. In the Auroran there is a notice that Bob McRoberts is giving a talk on old post cards at the ACC. It says ' donations will be gratefully accepted at the door'. Donations to whom? The Historical Society? The ACC? McRoberts> Where is transparency?
Just asking, is all.

Anonymous said...

12:48 PM
Nigel is once a toady, always a toady. Don't bother yourself about him.

Anonymous said...

Obviously, Ballard was so outraged by Dawe's flip response that it took him THREE weeks to pull himself together and compose a blog post about it.

Anonymous said...

Lyrics for "MAKING PLANS FOR NIGEL"
(Written by Colin Moulding)
XTC


We're only making plans for Nigel
We only want what's best for him
We're only making plans for Nigel
Nigel just needs this helping hand
And if young Nigel says he's happy
He must be happy
He must be happy in his work
We're only making plans for Nigel
He has his future in a British steel
We're only making plans for Nigel
Nigel's whole future is as good as sealed
And if young Nigel says he's happy
He must be happy
He must be happy in his work
Nigel is not outspoken
But he likes to speak
And loves to be spoken to
Nigel is happy in his work
We're only making plans for Nigel


*****


Making Plans For Nigel
(Robbie Williams version)

We're only making plans for Nigel
We only want what's best for him
We're only making plans for Nigel
Nigel just needs a helping hand

And if young Nigel says he's happy
He must be happy, he must be happy,
he must be happy in his world

We're only making plans for Nigel
He has his future in a fist of steel
We're only making plans for Nigel
Nigel's whole future is as good as sealed

And if young Nigel says he's happy
He must be happy, he must be happy,
He must be happy in his world

Nigel is nice spoken and he loves to speak
And he likes to be spoken to
Nigel is happy in his world
Nigel is happy in his world

We're only making plans for Nigel
We only want what's best for him
We're only making plans for Nigel
Nigel just needs a helping hand

And if young Nigel says he's happy
He must be happy, he must be happy,
he must be happy in his world

We're only making plans for Nigel
We only want what's best for him
We're only making plans for Nigel
We only want what's best for him

Anonymous said...

Consider the following Code of Conduct rules and how they have played out:

1. Public office is not to be used for personal gain --- but I guess that accessing town funding for a private lawsuit against political rivals with no obligation to pay back the town is fine.

2. The conduct of members of council is of the highest standard --- Really ? Who makes this call anyway ?

3. There is a fairness and respect for the differences and a duty to work together for the goodwill and common good --- unless of course you disagree in which case some folks might just see fit to call their lawyers and crush you like a bug.

4. Members of Council will accurately and adequately communicate the attitudes and
decisions of Council, even if they disagree with the majority decision of Council --- Just wondering... why was a cease and desist letter sent specifically to our former Mayor by the former integrity commissioner if she was reflecting the town's offical position ? That's strange.

5. Members of Council shall acknowledge and respect the fact that staff work for the Town
as a corporate body and are responsible for making recommendations that reflect their
professional expertise and corporate objectives, without due influence from any
individual member --- OK, but please re-do that staff report would you ? On second thought no worries, I'll write my own.

6. Members of Council will recognize their obligations to follow and respect the provisions
of the Municipal Conflict of Interest Act --- OK, seems simple enough.

7. Members shall conduct themselves with decorum and in
accordance with the Town’s Procedural By-law. Respect for delegations and for fellow
Council Members and staff requires that all Members show courtesy and not distract
from the business of Council during presentations and when other members have the
floor --- whatever. Details, details.


Thank goodness that we have rules that govern our local politian’s eh !

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

7:41 AM
A lovely morning Whack! Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Nigel, the word is 'publicly', not
'publically'.

Anonymous said...

"4. Members of Council will accurately and adequately communicate the attitudes and
decisions of Council, even if they disagree with the majority decision of Council"

To the extent that disagreeing opinions can be flaunted on councillor's blogs or websites to the point that they become preachy!

Anonymous said...

Could somebody please tell me what a "rube" is? Is it an in-joke that I am not privy to?