Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "The Trail Continues":
Evelyn,
I have no idea who you might be 'talking' to but it appears that we need a human body to go to Georgina's Town Hall with a FOI Request early in the week to determine how long the law firm representing Grossi has been working for the town. There may be other requests that someone like Paul Sesto could suggest.
********
Just phone the Clerk and ask if the law firm representing Grossi is retained by the town. If you need to file a request under Freedom of Information, the clerk will tell you. It's your Town Hall. In your service. You have a right to know just about everything they know.
Council didn't make this decision in secret. There's a public record of their culpability.I don't pretend to understand why they did it but there's no denying they did.
I have no idea who you think I might have been talking to or needed to talk to but after a person has served as Councillor,Reeve , County Councillor , Mayor and Regional Councillor and back again as Councillor, actually in office for twenty five years over a span of forty five of political involvement in Aurora and York Region's affairs, a person with any common sense, acquires an understanding of the rules. Sometimes rules change but basic rules remain the same.
Then there are recorded minutes of the committee of the whole that morphed into a closed door meeting that rolled right into a Special Meeting without proper notice of an agenda circulated to inform the public of matters being contemplated and decided by their council, that somebody sent me from Georgina last week.
The agenda for the special meeting like all Council agendas, called for declarations of pecuniary interest.
It's the first thing on any agenda. What could be more of a blatant pecuniary interest than a decision for the municipality to pay legal costs for a personal matter involving the Mayor.
Yet ,the minutes do not record the Mayor declared a pecuniary interest . No indication he absented himself from the in camera meeting, debate in the Special meeting, or the final vote
Unless the person who forwarded a copy of those minutes, forged the document, then those are the facts we have to go with.
There is no rule anywhere to stop Georgina residents from requesting delegate status at Council and making their opposition to Council's decision clear and succinct. Nothing to stop anyone from calling Councillors and demanding the decision be re-considered and rescinded.
There may have to be a vote to waive the procedure bylaw to allow the question to be re-considered within six months. But there is nothing to stop the request from being made.
If there is sufficient opposition to the Mayor's legal bills being paid by the municipality, it had better be heard. The Mayor has every right to pursue whatever legal action he chooses. He just doesn't have the right to have his bills paid by the taxpayer, In particular by the taxpayer he is suing.
I know that from reading the news from Toronto. They tried it down there ,in the face of contrary advice from the city solicitor. That decision had to be reversed.
One bill was paid .but if I re-call correctly ,the Councillor involved was serving as Speaker of the Council.The role placed her in a different category.
The City of Toronto Act allows Council to appoint a Speaker. The Mayor is free participate in debates and votes without have to pretend to be or in fact be impartial.
There's another thing I just thought of. Normally , when everything is kosher, direction from Council is to prepare a Bylaw. Bylaws are not normally prepared ready for a resolution for the Mayor and Clerk to sign.
A Bylaw has to be given three readings. It used to be first two reading would be read or taken as read. Third reading would be given at a future meeting.
Those were the days when the public's right to know what Council was proposing to sign into law was a given.
I don't know when that changed or why. But I can guess.
Probably some aggressive Councillor or Councillors with private business experience, thought the idea people should or would want to have a say, was just a silly waste of time and the legislative imperative should be junked.
Oddly enough the process at the senior levels, government bills still require separate readings.
Anyway, there's always some jackass ready to suggest that I don't really write this blog. That I can't possibly know all I know and write about.
Most of the time I pay no attention. But now and then it p-s me off.
Monday, 30 January 2012
Sunday, 29 January 2012
Saints Preserve Us
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "The Trail Continues":
But should a Georgina resident sue any of them over the breach in the Act, wouldn't it still be our taxes footing their defence through their insurance policies? Isn't that what passing the by-law was about anyway (given that Mayor and council were already financially protected should someone sue them but not the other way around)?
************
The Conflict of Interest charges against Aurora's ex-Mayor have been filed by a resident. The ex-Mayor will not be indemnified since she is no longer a member of Council.
It does have to be a citizen who takes the action at his/her own expense. That's how serious the Province is about enforcing Conflict of Interest prohibitions.
They stick us with four year terms of office and responsibility of private citizens having to enforce their laws.
Aurora's gang of six continue to be indemnified under another suit, apparently because they were councillors when the action began and even though they started the legal process with their phoney baloney Code of Conduct and a lawyer to contrive a complaint who was paid a fee of $70,000.
I have been informed the insurance company initially refused to indemnify. But yet another legal opinion was obtained at taxpayer's expense to convince them they should.
I have tried to discover the total amount spent on legal fees from the start of the four year term . Except at the beginning , before the wholesale turnover of staff ,I was stonewalled by staff and politicians. I haven't finished with it yet.
In Aurora, legal costs for the ex-Mayor's last Hurrah of suing three residents, had not been paid by the time of the election. . The new council retained another lawyer at another fee of $8,000. to tell them what to do. Of course he advised the lawyer's bill should be paid. So they did. They paid the $65,000
tab run up by the defeated Mayor up to December 1st..
It seems to be a generational thing. Modern Councillors tend to believe they are not obliged to exercise any judgement. They need to be advised every step of the way by their professional superiors.
If the professional says it, it must be right.
It must have something to do with the educational system.
Councillors also willingly make themselves available to lobbyists and let themselves be persuaded to hand over the keys of the kingdom willy nilly .
It fairly makes a mockery of everything I understand about accountability.
But...what do I know ?
From the extreme of getting rid of all staff who offered a hint of resistance to the harridans, to the other extreme of presenting a soft plushy body to plunder with ultimately the same result:
The taxpayers get hosed.
But I digress.
Municipalities purchase indemnification policies to hedge against insurance claims. Premiums are paid.
If claim are valid, the insurance company pays.
Indemnification does not provide for politicians or staff to sue people.
Mayor Grossi's litigation could not be paid by the insurance company. They should not have been paid with public funds either. Except for Council taking the extraordinary step of passing a bylaw.
The community needs to see the bylaw. Who signed it ?. Is the Mayor's signature on the dotted line ? Is the Clerk's?
The clerk, who allowed Council to roll right on from a Council- in -Committee meeting into a Special Meeting of Council without public notice or circulation of an agenda to notify the community of what their Council is about.
Oh My Gawd!!
But should a Georgina resident sue any of them over the breach in the Act, wouldn't it still be our taxes footing their defence through their insurance policies? Isn't that what passing the by-law was about anyway (given that Mayor and council were already financially protected should someone sue them but not the other way around)?
************
The Conflict of Interest charges against Aurora's ex-Mayor have been filed by a resident. The ex-Mayor will not be indemnified since she is no longer a member of Council.
It does have to be a citizen who takes the action at his/her own expense. That's how serious the Province is about enforcing Conflict of Interest prohibitions.
They stick us with four year terms of office and responsibility of private citizens having to enforce their laws.
Aurora's gang of six continue to be indemnified under another suit, apparently because they were councillors when the action began and even though they started the legal process with their phoney baloney Code of Conduct and a lawyer to contrive a complaint who was paid a fee of $70,000.
I have been informed the insurance company initially refused to indemnify. But yet another legal opinion was obtained at taxpayer's expense to convince them they should.
I have tried to discover the total amount spent on legal fees from the start of the four year term . Except at the beginning , before the wholesale turnover of staff ,I was stonewalled by staff and politicians. I haven't finished with it yet.
In Aurora, legal costs for the ex-Mayor's last Hurrah of suing three residents, had not been paid by the time of the election. . The new council retained another lawyer at another fee of $8,000. to tell them what to do. Of course he advised the lawyer's bill should be paid. So they did. They paid the $65,000
tab run up by the defeated Mayor up to December 1st..
It seems to be a generational thing. Modern Councillors tend to believe they are not obliged to exercise any judgement. They need to be advised every step of the way by their professional superiors.
If the professional says it, it must be right.
It must have something to do with the educational system.
Councillors also willingly make themselves available to lobbyists and let themselves be persuaded to hand over the keys of the kingdom willy nilly .
It fairly makes a mockery of everything I understand about accountability.
But...what do I know ?
From the extreme of getting rid of all staff who offered a hint of resistance to the harridans, to the other extreme of presenting a soft plushy body to plunder with ultimately the same result:
The taxpayers get hosed.
But I digress.
Municipalities purchase indemnification policies to hedge against insurance claims. Premiums are paid.
If claim are valid, the insurance company pays.
Indemnification does not provide for politicians or staff to sue people.
Mayor Grossi's litigation could not be paid by the insurance company. They should not have been paid with public funds either. Except for Council taking the extraordinary step of passing a bylaw.
The community needs to see the bylaw. Who signed it ?. Is the Mayor's signature on the dotted line ? Is the Clerk's?
The clerk, who allowed Council to roll right on from a Council- in -Committee meeting into a Special Meeting of Council without public notice or circulation of an agenda to notify the community of what their Council is about.
Oh My Gawd!!
The Trail Continues
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Georgina.....There Is A Solution": The by-law was without any doubt passed behind closed doors-- this is taken from the Committee of the Whole Minutes from Monday November 21st, page 16:23. RECESS COUNCIL AND RESOLVE INTO CLOSED MEETING:
Moved by Councillor Smockum
Seconded by Councillor Craig That the Council Meeting recess at this time and move into a closed meeting pursuant to Section 239 of The Municipal Act, 2001, as amended, to consider:
i) Personal matter about an identifiable individual; Section 239(2)(b), MA
*24. RISE AND REPORT FROM CLOSED MEETING:
Moved by Councillor Smockum
Seconded by Councillor Davison
RESOLUTION NO. CW-2011-0278
THAT THE CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER BE REQUESTED TO FOLLOW LEGAL ADVICE ON A PERSONAL MATTER.
(unrelated topic between what I'm pasting here)
25. ADJOURNMENT:
Moved by Councillor Smockum
Seconded by Councillor Davison
That the Committee of the Whole meeting resolve into a Special Council meeting at 11:40
a.m., immediately following the Committee of the Whole meeting to deal with the following
matters:
i) Roll Call
ii) Declarations of Pecuniary Interest
iii) Memorandum concerning appointment of members of the public to the Former
Sutton Public School Steering Committee
iv) A By-law to indemnify a Member of Council against damages and the costs of legal
proceedings
v) Confirming By-law
vi) Adjournment
If you were to dig up the actual Agenda as a whole, you'd find
that nothing was recorded (at least publicly) after item iii) Memorandum concerning appointment of members of the public to the Former Sutton Public School Steering Committee
Hunting for RESOLUTION NO. CW-2011-0278 mentioned above through the Town's Electronic Records management yields nothing.
Fortunately, The Pefferlaw Post has identified the relevant By-law as No. 2011-0121
However, having searched this in town records online I can find the Bylaw, but for the past two days the webpage that it is supposed to open in refused to load (having taken too long to respond according to google) -- either their system has been down for the last two days or they are attempting to hide this by-law from the people like me following the trail of slime through the mazes of bureaucracy. Hope that clarifies a few specifics.
********************
Anything but. It raises far more serious questions.
Item 24. The resolution contains similar weasel words used in Aurora when staff were directed to take whatever action was necessary to resolve the situation.The election was underway. Council had no further meetings. Councillors heard about the suit at the doors while they campaigned . The decision to litigate against three local residents was made without council authority.
Item Number 25.
"Adjournment was moved and seconded".
Presumably there was a vote. No further business can take place following adjournment.Special Meetings require public notice of forty-eight hours and circulation of an agenda stating its purpose.
Committee of the whole cannot resolve into a Special Council Meeting.
Did the Mayor attend the closed meeting. Did he participate in the vote to "request staff to follow legal advice on a personal matter. Did he vote on the resolution in the so-called "special meeting of council?
Did he declare a pecuniary interest when asked and abstain from voting on the resolution to " request the C.A.O.to obtain legal advice to be sought on a personal matter"
Was the Clerk present? The Clerk is the statutory officer responsible to ensure municipal business is conducted in accordance with the statutes?
Aurora's former Mayor is currently facing a charge of Conflict of Interest because of the issue. It has been filed by a citizen of Aurora. It was to be heard in February. It has been delayed until August.
The charge followed an investigation by a solicitor retained for the purpose of determining how things evolved and publication of his findings. Which included the statement the Mayor appeared to be in conflict.
The Town Solicitor employed by the town during the period no longer is.
Aurora paid legal fees of $65,000 on behalf of the former Mayor for a case that failed miserably and caused tremendous stress and horrendous expense to three families in the community.
Too damned right...I did not vote to pay that bill.
The families were served on the eve of Thanksgiving... for God's Sake.
Georgina residents can stop this now if they have the will. Your Council answers to you and not just at election time.
There is no weaselling out of it. The town is not involved in litigation. The Mayor is. His is the personal matter referred to in the "request to the CAO to obtain legal advice to be sought on a personal matter " as stated in the recorded minutes. .
Like a cab, the meter keeps on clicking.
Moved by Councillor Smockum
Seconded by Councillor Craig That the Council Meeting recess at this time and move into a closed meeting pursuant to Section 239 of The Municipal Act, 2001, as amended, to consider:
i) Personal matter about an identifiable individual; Section 239(2)(b), MA
*24. RISE AND REPORT FROM CLOSED MEETING:
Moved by Councillor Smockum
Seconded by Councillor Davison
RESOLUTION NO. CW-2011-0278
THAT THE CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER BE REQUESTED TO FOLLOW LEGAL ADVICE ON A PERSONAL MATTER.
(unrelated topic between what I'm pasting here)
25. ADJOURNMENT:
Moved by Councillor Smockum
Seconded by Councillor Davison
That the Committee of the Whole meeting resolve into a Special Council meeting at 11:40
a.m., immediately following the Committee of the Whole meeting to deal with the following
matters:
i) Roll Call
ii) Declarations of Pecuniary Interest
iii) Memorandum concerning appointment of members of the public to the Former
Sutton Public School Steering Committee
iv) A By-law to indemnify a Member of Council against damages and the costs of legal
proceedings
v) Confirming By-law
vi) Adjournment
If you were to dig up the actual Agenda as a whole, you'd find
that nothing was recorded (at least publicly) after item iii) Memorandum concerning appointment of members of the public to the Former Sutton Public School Steering Committee
Hunting for RESOLUTION NO. CW-2011-0278 mentioned above through the Town's Electronic Records management yields nothing.
Fortunately, The Pefferlaw Post has identified the relevant By-law as No. 2011-0121
However, having searched this in town records online I can find the Bylaw, but for the past two days the webpage that it is supposed to open in refused to load (having taken too long to respond according to google) -- either their system has been down for the last two days or they are attempting to hide this by-law from the people like me following the trail of slime through the mazes of bureaucracy. Hope that clarifies a few specifics.
********************
Anything but. It raises far more serious questions.
Item 24. The resolution contains similar weasel words used in Aurora when staff were directed to take whatever action was necessary to resolve the situation.The election was underway. Council had no further meetings. Councillors heard about the suit at the doors while they campaigned . The decision to litigate against three local residents was made without council authority.
Item Number 25.
"Adjournment was moved and seconded".
Presumably there was a vote. No further business can take place following adjournment.Special Meetings require public notice of forty-eight hours and circulation of an agenda stating its purpose.
Committee of the whole cannot resolve into a Special Council Meeting.
Did the Mayor attend the closed meeting. Did he participate in the vote to "request staff to follow legal advice on a personal matter. Did he vote on the resolution in the so-called "special meeting of council?
Did he declare a pecuniary interest when asked and abstain from voting on the resolution to " request the C.A.O.to obtain legal advice to be sought on a personal matter"
Was the Clerk present? The Clerk is the statutory officer responsible to ensure municipal business is conducted in accordance with the statutes?
Aurora's former Mayor is currently facing a charge of Conflict of Interest because of the issue. It has been filed by a citizen of Aurora. It was to be heard in February. It has been delayed until August.
The charge followed an investigation by a solicitor retained for the purpose of determining how things evolved and publication of his findings. Which included the statement the Mayor appeared to be in conflict.
The Town Solicitor employed by the town during the period no longer is.
Aurora paid legal fees of $65,000 on behalf of the former Mayor for a case that failed miserably and caused tremendous stress and horrendous expense to three families in the community.
Too damned right...I did not vote to pay that bill.
The families were served on the eve of Thanksgiving... for God's Sake.
Georgina residents can stop this now if they have the will. Your Council answers to you and not just at election time.
There is no weaselling out of it. The town is not involved in litigation. The Mayor is. His is the personal matter referred to in the "request to the CAO to obtain legal advice to be sought on a personal matter " as stated in the recorded minutes. .
Like a cab, the meter keeps on clicking.
Georgina.....There Is A Solution
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "The Tobaggon Ride May Not Be The Only Slippery Slo...":
Judging only from the surface, it would appear that the Mayor expected McLean to roll-over and was not prepared to follow through with his threat. Much will depend upon who and what McLean is, if he is comfortable in his own skin. It is a big risk to bully someone who knows where all the bodies are buried. But bullies seldom consider that they might not be the victors.
***********************
I read all the links sent to me. It sounds as though Georgina Council had their discussion about financing the Mayor's personal law suit behind closed doors.
But that can't be. A municipality can't pass a bylaw behind closed doors. The town's web site will provide information on agendas and meeting minutes.
A closed meeting requires a purpose to be stated. The right to privacy requires no names to be disclosed.
But what politician in his or her right mind, believes spending public money on a personal objective qualifies for closed door secret discussion.
Of course I don't know that happened .
A steady stream of letter to the editor expressing outrage over Council's action seem to think it happened that way.
Few dispute the Mayor's right to sue if he thinks he should, as long as he spends his own money.
I personally think any politician worth his salt should be able to defend him or herself against criticism without the help of lawyers. My goodness, yes. If you can't stand the heat, the obvious solution is to remove oneself from the kitchen.
But when lawyers are hired with public money to mount an attack on the freedom to lambaste a politician , no self-respecting Canadian who values the Charter of Rights and Freedoms can submit.
The fight for rights has been too long and hard and bitter to surrender so easily.
Georgina residents ,with opportunity to vote so far distant, should not content themselves with letters to the editor and comments to blogs.
They should delegate and take the issue directly to Council.
The people of East Gwillimbury took the matter in hand.
The people of Aurora tossed the bastards. Most of them.
When people see something repugnant being done in their name, they have a right to call a halt to it.
Georgina Council can change that decision.
Aurora did.
Judging only from the surface, it would appear that the Mayor expected McLean to roll-over and was not prepared to follow through with his threat. Much will depend upon who and what McLean is, if he is comfortable in his own skin. It is a big risk to bully someone who knows where all the bodies are buried. But bullies seldom consider that they might not be the victors.
***********************
I read all the links sent to me. It sounds as though Georgina Council had their discussion about financing the Mayor's personal law suit behind closed doors.
But that can't be. A municipality can't pass a bylaw behind closed doors. The town's web site will provide information on agendas and meeting minutes.
A closed meeting requires a purpose to be stated. The right to privacy requires no names to be disclosed.
But what politician in his or her right mind, believes spending public money on a personal objective qualifies for closed door secret discussion.
Of course I don't know that happened .
A steady stream of letter to the editor expressing outrage over Council's action seem to think it happened that way.
Few dispute the Mayor's right to sue if he thinks he should, as long as he spends his own money.
I personally think any politician worth his salt should be able to defend him or herself against criticism without the help of lawyers. My goodness, yes. If you can't stand the heat, the obvious solution is to remove oneself from the kitchen.
But when lawyers are hired with public money to mount an attack on the freedom to lambaste a politician , no self-respecting Canadian who values the Charter of Rights and Freedoms can submit.
The fight for rights has been too long and hard and bitter to surrender so easily.
Georgina residents ,with opportunity to vote so far distant, should not content themselves with letters to the editor and comments to blogs.
They should delegate and take the issue directly to Council.
The people of East Gwillimbury took the matter in hand.
The people of Aurora tossed the bastards. Most of them.
When people see something repugnant being done in their name, they have a right to call a halt to it.
Georgina Council can change that decision.
Aurora did.
Saturday, 28 January 2012
The Tobaggon Ride May Not Be The Only Slippery Slope
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Keswick Pinhead said....":
It would appear that Bloggers communicate with Bloggers from other towns and we know Town Staff have a support network of staff from other towns. You would think the lawyers for Mayor Grossi would have been in touch with the lawyers for former Mayor Morris to head off this freight train.
********************
I think it's entirely possible lawyers for Mayor Grossi might have been in touch with lawyers for Aurora's former Mayor.
Lessons were obviously learned. Like having Georgina Council pass a Bylaw to approve financing for the Mayors personal law suit.
It's not a freight train you have to worry about.
Out of interest, when was Mr.. Maclean a Regional Councillor ? When did he become Director of Leisure Services ? When did he stop acting?
Does Georgina have a ward system? How many wards? D'you think ward councillors might be dependent on the Mayor's good will? Would each be more concerned about their own bailliewick than about the rest of the Municipality?
Did the Bylaw to approve financing the Mayor's personal law suit pass with a unanimous vote or a simple majority? A Bylaw can't be passed in secret.
Ours was a resolution passed behind closed doors delegating authority to decide on a process to a staff person. Some Councillors learned about the court action when campaigning at the doors during the election.
Why would Georgina Councillors be willing to carry that can for the Mayor?
It would appear that Bloggers communicate with Bloggers from other towns and we know Town Staff have a support network of staff from other towns. You would think the lawyers for Mayor Grossi would have been in touch with the lawyers for former Mayor Morris to head off this freight train.
********************
I think it's entirely possible lawyers for Mayor Grossi might have been in touch with lawyers for Aurora's former Mayor.
Lessons were obviously learned. Like having Georgina Council pass a Bylaw to approve financing for the Mayors personal law suit.
It's not a freight train you have to worry about.
Out of interest, when was Mr.. Maclean a Regional Councillor ? When did he become Director of Leisure Services ? When did he stop acting?
Does Georgina have a ward system? How many wards? D'you think ward councillors might be dependent on the Mayor's good will? Would each be more concerned about their own bailliewick than about the rest of the Municipality?
Did the Bylaw to approve financing the Mayor's personal law suit pass with a unanimous vote or a simple majority? A Bylaw can't be passed in secret.
Ours was a resolution passed behind closed doors delegating authority to decide on a process to a staff person. Some Councillors learned about the court action when campaigning at the doors during the election.
Why would Georgina Councillors be willing to carry that can for the Mayor?
Keswick Pinhead said....
Instead of wasting taxes on this frivolous lawsuit, Mayor Rob Grossi could have saved us ALL a boatload of money, and saved HIMSELF from the disdain of an angry public by saying this:
"A disgruntled former employee has spoken his piece in this newspaper, as is his right.
Here is my rebuttal...."
I was unaware that he was using our money to sue the newspaper too...very interesting post.
Keep up the Wood Gork.
Grossi's Mountain ...2
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Grossi's Mountain":
As of Jan 26th, calls to Georgina's Town Hall were told that Mr. McLean was still an employee.
******************
An even more intriguing situation presents.
I read the links. I saw reference to disability. Also to Mr. Mclean defending his staff from blame by Mayor Grossi and Councillors for cost over-runs and design flaws in Grossi's Mountain.
The "mountain" is man-made. Created by fill placed in a corner of the property by invitation of the Mayor. I am not a reporter. I am going by what I have read. I don't have to check my sources. While the story might seem crazy to any reasonable person, it's entirely plausible to me on the basis of my personal experience
Georgina is part of the northern-six municipal pact. We jointly obtained an indemnification policy at a favourable price together.
Staff and Councillors in Aurora are indemnified against legal action for decisions undertaken in the course of their duties. .
Mr. Mclean could be eligible for a legal defense from the town's policy against suit by the Town's Mayor.
I wonder if he knows.
I didn't a few years ago when the deadly duo brought George Rust D'Eye in to advise what could be done about moi. They identified a leak of information from a closed meeting which should have been reported out three months previously and to this day, never was.
A resident informed me the town would have indemnification in place, if legal action was taken against me for fulfilling my elected responsibilities.
So, I asked about that. In all the years I had been a councillor the question had never been raised.
But those who must have known , denied all knowledge of indemnification
Some time later I inquired again. Council learned they would indeed be indemnified if sued while performing their duties as elected representatives.
At the same time, we were informed no indemnification exists to allow staff or council to litigate against another. We received a written report to that effect.
Now we know, Georgina Council had to pass a bylaw to allow the Mayor's legal costs to be paid straight out of taxpayers' pocket.
Wouldn't that just take the cake if Mr. Mclean's defence was covered by town insurance while the Mayor's is being paid straight out of the treasury.
A couple of posts back, I told you how the community in East Gwillimbury filled the Council chamber at a meeting and said;
Enough of this damned nonsense, Mayor Young and Councillor Johnstone, get back into your seats and get on with the job.
I'm paraphrasing but I was there and that essentially is what happened. The issue was a Code of Conduct complaint against the Mayor and Councillor Johnstone, filed by the Chief Administrative Officer with Mr. George Rust D'Eye , on hand to advise Council.
It remains to be seen if the people of Georgina will be more docile than the people of East Gwillimbury
in the face of nincompoopery in the first order and gross abuse of public resources.
As of Jan 26th, calls to Georgina's Town Hall were told that Mr. McLean was still an employee.
******************
An even more intriguing situation presents.
I read the links. I saw reference to disability. Also to Mr. Mclean defending his staff from blame by Mayor Grossi and Councillors for cost over-runs and design flaws in Grossi's Mountain.
The "mountain" is man-made. Created by fill placed in a corner of the property by invitation of the Mayor. I am not a reporter. I am going by what I have read. I don't have to check my sources. While the story might seem crazy to any reasonable person, it's entirely plausible to me on the basis of my personal experience
Georgina is part of the northern-six municipal pact. We jointly obtained an indemnification policy at a favourable price together.
Staff and Councillors in Aurora are indemnified against legal action for decisions undertaken in the course of their duties. .
Mr. Mclean could be eligible for a legal defense from the town's policy against suit by the Town's Mayor.
I wonder if he knows.
I didn't a few years ago when the deadly duo brought George Rust D'Eye in to advise what could be done about moi. They identified a leak of information from a closed meeting which should have been reported out three months previously and to this day, never was.
A resident informed me the town would have indemnification in place, if legal action was taken against me for fulfilling my elected responsibilities.
So, I asked about that. In all the years I had been a councillor the question had never been raised.
But those who must have known , denied all knowledge of indemnification
Some time later I inquired again. Council learned they would indeed be indemnified if sued while performing their duties as elected representatives.
At the same time, we were informed no indemnification exists to allow staff or council to litigate against another. We received a written report to that effect.
Now we know, Georgina Council had to pass a bylaw to allow the Mayor's legal costs to be paid straight out of taxpayers' pocket.
Wouldn't that just take the cake if Mr. Mclean's defence was covered by town insurance while the Mayor's is being paid straight out of the treasury.
A couple of posts back, I told you how the community in East Gwillimbury filled the Council chamber at a meeting and said;
Enough of this damned nonsense, Mayor Young and Councillor Johnstone, get back into your seats and get on with the job.
I'm paraphrasing but I was there and that essentially is what happened. The issue was a Code of Conduct complaint against the Mayor and Councillor Johnstone, filed by the Chief Administrative Officer with Mr. George Rust D'Eye , on hand to advise Council.
It remains to be seen if the people of Georgina will be more docile than the people of East Gwillimbury
in the face of nincompoopery in the first order and gross abuse of public resources.
The Meaning Of Integrity
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Mardi Gras In Aurora Is Spectacular ..Kudos To The...":
1:08 PM
Christopher, I think that comment was about You earning trust. And you have not done so. The fury over being asked not to meddle on Evelyn's Blog and losing the battle over the condemned house shows why people might be reluctant to sign in.
And you only know what you read and infer about what stands Anonymous Bloggers might take. There is a world of inter-action beyond the Blog. You have not been asked to participate as you are judged to be a 'wild cannon'.
********************
Whoa!
I am happy to be the conduit between Christopher and the people he dismays. I am confident of his ability to speak for himself.
But I need to clarify a couple of things. I appreciate advice from Christopher on how to improve this great opportunity we have for carrying on a robust conversation about this and that but mainly town affairs.
I sense the world of interaction beyond the Blog . I am also not asked to participate.I notice that.
I have an affinity for Christopher. He does what I did when I first became involved .
For me, the next step was politics. No point firing off salvos if I didn't believe they were shared by others and should make a difference.
Aurora may be the only place to elect someone like myself. They've certainly done it often enough to prove a straightforward position delivered with force of conviction is appreciated in this town.
I have never felt pressure to "play nicely". It's a good thing.
Politics is not kindergarten, a Sunday school picnic, a service club dinner or the lady's auxiliary.
Criticism is a sign of good health and vigour.
Politics is the one arena where the battle should be enjoined. People should put forward positions with all the force they can muster without malice aforethought.
It takes courage and confidence, a willingness to risk and it keeps you knowing you are alive.
It calls for sticking your head above the crowd and inviting dolly molly shots. There are plenty of those.
In my judgment, an unwilling,ill-equipped council member,who aspires to popularity at the expense of integrity, is mainly taking up space.
1:08 PM
Christopher, I think that comment was about You earning trust. And you have not done so. The fury over being asked not to meddle on Evelyn's Blog and losing the battle over the condemned house shows why people might be reluctant to sign in.
And you only know what you read and infer about what stands Anonymous Bloggers might take. There is a world of inter-action beyond the Blog. You have not been asked to participate as you are judged to be a 'wild cannon'.
********************
Whoa!
I am happy to be the conduit between Christopher and the people he dismays. I am confident of his ability to speak for himself.
But I need to clarify a couple of things. I appreciate advice from Christopher on how to improve this great opportunity we have for carrying on a robust conversation about this and that but mainly town affairs.
I sense the world of interaction beyond the Blog . I am also not asked to participate.I notice that.
I have an affinity for Christopher. He does what I did when I first became involved .
For me, the next step was politics. No point firing off salvos if I didn't believe they were shared by others and should make a difference.
Aurora may be the only place to elect someone like myself. They've certainly done it often enough to prove a straightforward position delivered with force of conviction is appreciated in this town.
I have never felt pressure to "play nicely". It's a good thing.
Politics is not kindergarten, a Sunday school picnic, a service club dinner or the lady's auxiliary.
Criticism is a sign of good health and vigour.
Politics is the one arena where the battle should be enjoined. People should put forward positions with all the force they can muster without malice aforethought.
It takes courage and confidence, a willingness to risk and it keeps you knowing you are alive.
It calls for sticking your head above the crowd and inviting dolly molly shots. There are plenty of those.
In my judgment, an unwilling,ill-equipped council member,who aspires to popularity at the expense of integrity, is mainly taking up space.
Pig ..sticking
I've been watching debates between American Republican candidates for the presidential nomination.
Without knowing pig-sticking , the word came to mind as I watched the process.
I thought it was in the category of cock-fighting and dog fighting; Unspeakably cruel, appealing only to sub-intellects and prohibited in civilized societies
One reason only could compel a person to submit to such indignity..... overwhelming lust for power and total lack of self-respect.
Without knowing pig-sticking , the word came to mind as I watched the process.
I thought it was in the category of cock-fighting and dog fighting; Unspeakably cruel, appealing only to sub-intellects and prohibited in civilized societies
One reason only could compel a person to submit to such indignity..... overwhelming lust for power and total lack of self-respect.
Friday, 27 January 2012
Grossi's Mountain
I've been asked to comment on the Mayor of Georgina suit against a former municipal employee for defamation and the rig-a-ma-role undertaken by Council to legitimize spending public resources to defend the Mayor's political reputation .
Since I am currently engaged in litigation against the ex-Mayor of Aurora and five Councillors , which is in small part about defamation of my character, my solicitor would probably advise me to steer clear
But there may be a couple of observations I am free to make.
I have a satellite in Keswick. I called my son with birthday wishes on Wednesday.
He asked if I'd heard about Grossi's Mountain. I said I had seen some video on Roger's Cable about the complex but I didn't know that was the official name.
He said it isn't. That's how it's known locally.
He told of a friend who had been on the toboggan run with his children. It was so fast it was terrifying.
Well, I thought, that's not good news.
Seems the snow-making machinery is situated so it creates blizzard conditions on a public highway. White-outs and icy conditions on the pavement.
My word, I thought.
Seems the former Director of Leisure Services Director said that would happen but they didn't pay any attention.
The facility ran substantially over budget. In the millions.
Hmmmm .....That's not good.
What is really odd about the situation is the former director speaking out.. He apparently wrote a Letter to the Editor in the local newspaper.
Two things about that.
First ....no mention of the newspaper being sued
Second .....public servants generally accept settlements and go away quietly. To do otherwise is to pretty well blow away your chance of being hired by another municipality. It's not professionally advantageous to take on a fight with politicians, except at the ballot box maybe.
It's not exactly a conspiracy of silence but it's close.
Keswick is a community of young families. The price of housing goes down the farther out from Toronto. The new facility would ordinarily be well received in a young community.
The municipality bought the seminary and farm years ago for a town administration centre.
I held a Social Assistance Review Board Hearing there in the eighties. The Council Chamber was a former chapel complete with light streaming from the windows on our heads. Like the Holy Ghost. A Catholic altar is generally designed that way.
The reception area had a furry fish that looked like rabbit in a glass trophy case
It was quite odd, presiding at a hearing seated on an altar.It seemed almost sacrilegious
Maybe it influenced Mayor Grossi's decision to sue a former employee for $100,000.
The Divine Rights of Kings and all that jazz.
Maybe $100,000 was the amount of the settlement
Litigation may be a way of trying to get it back now the beans were spilled about what caused the split between himself and the leisure services director.
A number of links has been provided to stories on the issue.
I haven't read them yet.
I didn't want to spoil my initial reaction.
Since I am currently engaged in litigation against the ex-Mayor of Aurora and five Councillors , which is in small part about defamation of my character, my solicitor would probably advise me to steer clear
But there may be a couple of observations I am free to make.
I have a satellite in Keswick. I called my son with birthday wishes on Wednesday.
He asked if I'd heard about Grossi's Mountain. I said I had seen some video on Roger's Cable about the complex but I didn't know that was the official name.
He said it isn't. That's how it's known locally.
He told of a friend who had been on the toboggan run with his children. It was so fast it was terrifying.
Well, I thought, that's not good news.
Seems the snow-making machinery is situated so it creates blizzard conditions on a public highway. White-outs and icy conditions on the pavement.
My word, I thought.
Seems the former Director of Leisure Services Director said that would happen but they didn't pay any attention.
The facility ran substantially over budget. In the millions.
Hmmmm .....That's not good.
What is really odd about the situation is the former director speaking out.. He apparently wrote a Letter to the Editor in the local newspaper.
Two things about that.
First ....no mention of the newspaper being sued
Second .....public servants generally accept settlements and go away quietly. To do otherwise is to pretty well blow away your chance of being hired by another municipality. It's not professionally advantageous to take on a fight with politicians, except at the ballot box maybe.
It's not exactly a conspiracy of silence but it's close.
Keswick is a community of young families. The price of housing goes down the farther out from Toronto. The new facility would ordinarily be well received in a young community.
The municipality bought the seminary and farm years ago for a town administration centre.
I held a Social Assistance Review Board Hearing there in the eighties. The Council Chamber was a former chapel complete with light streaming from the windows on our heads. Like the Holy Ghost. A Catholic altar is generally designed that way.
The reception area had a furry fish that looked like rabbit in a glass trophy case
It was quite odd, presiding at a hearing seated on an altar.It seemed almost sacrilegious
Maybe it influenced Mayor Grossi's decision to sue a former employee for $100,000.
The Divine Rights of Kings and all that jazz.
Maybe $100,000 was the amount of the settlement
Litigation may be a way of trying to get it back now the beans were spilled about what caused the split between himself and the leisure services director.
A number of links has been provided to stories on the issue.
I haven't read them yet.
I didn't want to spoil my initial reaction.
What's Shocking Is It's Not Shocking......It's Commonplace
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Mardi Gras In Aurora Is Spectacular ..Kudos To The...":
"Christopher has earned our respect and admiration."
For "our" read "my" - please don't profess to speak for anyone but yourself.
**************************
Responses to my posts are important to what I do here. They provide opportunity to explain and provide background to issues that isn't possible in any venue available.including council meetings.
But sometimes a comment stands out.
Like the one above.
I deleted it first. Then decided it deserved an observation.
I am an elected representative. Despite everything that could be done during the last term of council, was done at horrendous public expense, to destroy my reputation,I was re-elected and four of six of the culprits were not.
Despite being chosen once again and in my twenty-fifth year in office, as a spokesperson for the community, there it is; a statement revealing a level of ignorance and disrespect impossible to fathom.
"Please don't profess to speak for anyone but yourself"
In the last Council, a majority determined my right to speak had to be circumscribed by a Code of Conduct.
Canada may be the only country in the civilized world with a Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
Freedom of speech was entrenched in common law long before the Charter became law.
In terms of history,the fight for equal representation in government is a recent victory.
The right is not as old as the country. Education is.
So how does such abysmal ignorance flourish in Aurora in the year of Our Lord 2012?
That it does is undeniable. The comment could easily have been spoken by Councillor Wendy Gaertner. As I read it,I could her voice.
The Councillor regularly objects, on points of order to something she heard which hasn't been said, such is her sensitivity to the need to silence anything she does not wish to hear.
"Christopher has earned our respect and admiration."
For "our" read "my" - please don't profess to speak for anyone but yourself.
**************************
Responses to my posts are important to what I do here. They provide opportunity to explain and provide background to issues that isn't possible in any venue available.including council meetings.
But sometimes a comment stands out.
Like the one above.
I deleted it first. Then decided it deserved an observation.
I am an elected representative. Despite everything that could be done during the last term of council, was done at horrendous public expense, to destroy my reputation,I was re-elected and four of six of the culprits were not.
Despite being chosen once again and in my twenty-fifth year in office, as a spokesperson for the community, there it is; a statement revealing a level of ignorance and disrespect impossible to fathom.
"Please don't profess to speak for anyone but yourself"
In the last Council, a majority determined my right to speak had to be circumscribed by a Code of Conduct.
Canada may be the only country in the civilized world with a Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
Freedom of speech was entrenched in common law long before the Charter became law.
In terms of history,the fight for equal representation in government is a recent victory.
The right is not as old as the country. Education is.
So how does such abysmal ignorance flourish in Aurora in the year of Our Lord 2012?
That it does is undeniable. The comment could easily have been spoken by Councillor Wendy Gaertner. As I read it,I could her voice.
The Councillor regularly objects, on points of order to something she heard which hasn't been said, such is her sensitivity to the need to silence anything she does not wish to hear.
Thursday, 26 January 2012
How Many Is Many
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Those Who Mind Do Matter":
You have mentioned the library and the demolished house many times.Now could you please have the integrity to post who owned the property the library was erected on.
************
Properties from Church Street School to and including the corner at Yonge and points north, were acquired by the town for the library site. There were at least seven or eight. I have no idea who owned them . The house I mentioned in debate had been acquired previously by the town.
At one time, when I was Mayor, the entire square was envisioned as a Civic Square.and in fact was an addendum to the Official Plan. We owned half of the block. We acquired the house on Yonge with a view to making the vision a reality.
Councils change. new visions take the place of old and it became Library. Square. Now the town owns about two thirds of the square. Two library buildings are surplus. The old firehall under-utilizes the ground it sits on. The same can be said for Victoria Hall. Also once used as a library
A decision about the fate of the surplus buildings, has been pending since the new library was constructed. Thirteen or fourteen years since.
Studies have shown exorbitant cost required to keep the old library as it is and accessible
.Adapting it for re- use is impossible because of thickness of the concrete floor needed to support the weight of books.
Neither this council nor the last nor the one before, ever got around to tackling the decision waiting to be made
Instead we occupy our time spending money on never-ending studies on the down- town, $84,thousand on a Strategic plan, A strategy for business retention and expansion. A data bank, for God's Sake.
Files full of airy-fairy pages of pretty coloured pictures, hours and hours of meetings and public input, turtle ponds and snake hibernaculums, and now $214. thousand for a consultant to design a wildlife park on land we do not own which will not get SLSCA approval.Oh yes and endless media releases about our exciting accomplishments. .
On and on we go, spending millions to stack binders of verbiage of little substance while major issues languish on the shelf.
We spend money on bafflegab schemes about how to attract "investors" to our town and improve "customer service" for " Clients and stakeholders" while we take three years to permit a would-be investor to invest . And by the way, while they persist, we treat them like pirates trying to rob us of our heritage.
We raise taxes every year and complacently watch shop doors close and businesses leave town. while we contrive every which way to put obstacles in the way of re-development and desperately needed new assessment.
We give away millions of hard-earned taxes, hand over fist, to self-acclaimed grandiose saviours of the community's well-being who have never been elected to any position of accountability or given authority from anybody we know.
We seem to know best, cosily advised by our experts, how to spend money with no visible sign of return. Only in government you say? .Aye, ye're right ,we do say..
I have watched from a seat on council, powerless to stop it, the town going the way of an atypical institution, swelling like a bloated carcase, existing only to serve itself.
Are there any more questions for me to answer with integrity?
You have mentioned the library and the demolished house many times.Now could you please have the integrity to post who owned the property the library was erected on.
************
Properties from Church Street School to and including the corner at Yonge and points north, were acquired by the town for the library site. There were at least seven or eight. I have no idea who owned them . The house I mentioned in debate had been acquired previously by the town.
At one time, when I was Mayor, the entire square was envisioned as a Civic Square.and in fact was an addendum to the Official Plan. We owned half of the block. We acquired the house on Yonge with a view to making the vision a reality.
Councils change. new visions take the place of old and it became Library. Square. Now the town owns about two thirds of the square. Two library buildings are surplus. The old firehall under-utilizes the ground it sits on. The same can be said for Victoria Hall. Also once used as a library
A decision about the fate of the surplus buildings, has been pending since the new library was constructed. Thirteen or fourteen years since.
Studies have shown exorbitant cost required to keep the old library as it is and accessible
.Adapting it for re- use is impossible because of thickness of the concrete floor needed to support the weight of books.
Neither this council nor the last nor the one before, ever got around to tackling the decision waiting to be made
Instead we occupy our time spending money on never-ending studies on the down- town, $84,thousand on a Strategic plan, A strategy for business retention and expansion. A data bank, for God's Sake.
Files full of airy-fairy pages of pretty coloured pictures, hours and hours of meetings and public input, turtle ponds and snake hibernaculums, and now $214. thousand for a consultant to design a wildlife park on land we do not own which will not get SLSCA approval.Oh yes and endless media releases about our exciting accomplishments. .
On and on we go, spending millions to stack binders of verbiage of little substance while major issues languish on the shelf.
We spend money on bafflegab schemes about how to attract "investors" to our town and improve "customer service" for " Clients and stakeholders" while we take three years to permit a would-be investor to invest . And by the way, while they persist, we treat them like pirates trying to rob us of our heritage.
We raise taxes every year and complacently watch shop doors close and businesses leave town. while we contrive every which way to put obstacles in the way of re-development and desperately needed new assessment.
We give away millions of hard-earned taxes, hand over fist, to self-acclaimed grandiose saviours of the community's well-being who have never been elected to any position of accountability or given authority from anybody we know.
We seem to know best, cosily advised by our experts, how to spend money with no visible sign of return. Only in government you say? .Aye, ye're right ,we do say..
I have watched from a seat on council, powerless to stop it, the town going the way of an atypical institution, swelling like a bloated carcase, existing only to serve itself.
Are there any more questions for me to answer with integrity?
In The Eye Of The Beholder
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Mardi Gras In Aurora Is Spectacular ..Kudos To The...":
"It was only elite as far as people who supported the cause, were willing to contribute and have a wonderful evening of fun and entertainment while they were at it."
How is this any different than any of the events with Councillor Ballard's involvement that have been slagged here as being elistist? I see a double standard.
****************
You see what you want to see.
I know nothing of Ballard's activities before he became a Councillor.
I know nothing of his current extracouncilcurricular affairs.Whatever they are is his business not mine. I have no interest in what the Councillor is up to.They have hereto not been slagged on this blog.
Yesterday I had an e-mail telling me he was tweeting from the Council table after the decision to grant the demolition permit. The inquiry was whether or not tweeting is permitted.
Councillors are not students in a classroom subject to teacher discipline though I grant that seems to have become a common concept.
People elected to the authority of public office should be capable of exercising judgement. But different people have a different understanding of judgement and ethics.
That's why a Code for either is a ridiculous concept.
Shameless pandering in my opinion is utterly degrading to everyone involved and completely lacking in decorum,judgement and ethics
Councillor Gaertner thinks it's exactly a councillor's duty to do what "the people " want. The Councillor is a strong proponent of ethics and good conduct. She always recognizes when either have been contravened.
And My Goodness," the Code" cannot be dismissed for fear of being accused of not being in favour of proper conduct or ethics or both
And put at risk of running afoul of the judgement of someone like David Tsubuchi., an erstwhile Minister of Social Services who thought impoverished mothers should negotiate with supermarket managers for a lower price on a can of tuna in order to keep their children nourished.
For all I know, Councillor Ballard could have been tweeting for advice about what to do once the vote was cast. He tried to get the item pulled after the agenda was approved. He called twice for recorded votes after a majority had raised hands in support of the motion. Like councillors might change their vote when they realised their votes would form part of the record.
He tried everything he could think of to win the argument. He even plagiarised some of Christopher Watts comments. No wonder Christopher was pleased with the Councillor comments . They were an echo of his own.
When all else failed the Councillor tweeted.
I didn't see it.
Maybe we need to consider an amendment to the procedure bylaw.
"It was only elite as far as people who supported the cause, were willing to contribute and have a wonderful evening of fun and entertainment while they were at it."
How is this any different than any of the events with Councillor Ballard's involvement that have been slagged here as being elistist? I see a double standard.
****************
You see what you want to see.
I know nothing of Ballard's activities before he became a Councillor.
I know nothing of his current extracouncilcurricular affairs.Whatever they are is his business not mine. I have no interest in what the Councillor is up to.They have hereto not been slagged on this blog.
Yesterday I had an e-mail telling me he was tweeting from the Council table after the decision to grant the demolition permit. The inquiry was whether or not tweeting is permitted.
Councillors are not students in a classroom subject to teacher discipline though I grant that seems to have become a common concept.
People elected to the authority of public office should be capable of exercising judgement. But different people have a different understanding of judgement and ethics.
That's why a Code for either is a ridiculous concept.
Shameless pandering in my opinion is utterly degrading to everyone involved and completely lacking in decorum,judgement and ethics
Councillor Gaertner thinks it's exactly a councillor's duty to do what "the people " want. The Councillor is a strong proponent of ethics and good conduct. She always recognizes when either have been contravened.
And My Goodness," the Code" cannot be dismissed for fear of being accused of not being in favour of proper conduct or ethics or both
And put at risk of running afoul of the judgement of someone like David Tsubuchi., an erstwhile Minister of Social Services who thought impoverished mothers should negotiate with supermarket managers for a lower price on a can of tuna in order to keep their children nourished.
For all I know, Councillor Ballard could have been tweeting for advice about what to do once the vote was cast. He tried to get the item pulled after the agenda was approved. He called twice for recorded votes after a majority had raised hands in support of the motion. Like councillors might change their vote when they realised their votes would form part of the record.
He tried everything he could think of to win the argument. He even plagiarised some of Christopher Watts comments. No wonder Christopher was pleased with the Councillor comments . They were an echo of his own.
When all else failed the Councillor tweeted.
I didn't see it.
Maybe we need to consider an amendment to the procedure bylaw.
Credit Where Due
The post I printed on Sunday with research on Bullfrog Power turned out to have been from Councillor John Abel. He did the work, put the results into writing and forwarded it to me for my information.
I misunderstood and published it without attribution
Kudos to Councillor John Abel.
I misunderstood and published it without attribution
Kudos to Councillor John Abel.
Those Who Mind Do Matter
I just read how my opinion on the George Browning House made Christopher cringe and infuriated him more than any other..
I have to correct a statement I made .I said the house the town demolished to make way for the library was a Browning house. That may be an error of memory. It was a dark and sombre house with little elegance. I do not regret it's disappearance.There were other, more interesting houses on Church Street but not a whisper of an outcry.
I'm not concerned that I infuriated Christopher or made hm cringe because our views differ..
Je n'accuse pas.
He has his opinion. I have mine, the twain do not meet.
What's to be done? What's to be done?
Nothing at all. Why should anything need to be done.? We do not agree. Like it or lump it.
I had a vote. Christopher did not. Christopher declares he has no inclination towards politics.
You can rail all you like but if you're not prepared to take responsibility, you are hardly in a position to criticize those who do and risk offending fiery and articulate people like Christopher.
As a politician, I am prepared to be myself but I do not accept Doctor Seuss's philosophy that those who mind don't matter. They most certainly do.
.
I've been doing it a long time .I have scars to prove it. I've taken the heat. I've stayed in the kitchen.
I don't run for office to be told what to think by someone half my age and none of my experience, who has the luxury of contemplating only one aspect of a particular decision and doesn't even recognize pandering when he himself is the object.
I have to correct a statement I made .I said the house the town demolished to make way for the library was a Browning house. That may be an error of memory. It was a dark and sombre house with little elegance. I do not regret it's disappearance.There were other, more interesting houses on Church Street but not a whisper of an outcry.
I'm not concerned that I infuriated Christopher or made hm cringe because our views differ..
Je n'accuse pas.
He has his opinion. I have mine, the twain do not meet.
What's to be done? What's to be done?
Nothing at all. Why should anything need to be done.? We do not agree. Like it or lump it.
I had a vote. Christopher did not. Christopher declares he has no inclination towards politics.
You can rail all you like but if you're not prepared to take responsibility, you are hardly in a position to criticize those who do and risk offending fiery and articulate people like Christopher.
As a politician, I am prepared to be myself but I do not accept Doctor Seuss's philosophy that those who mind don't matter. They most certainly do.
.
I've been doing it a long time .I have scars to prove it. I've taken the heat. I've stayed in the kitchen.
I don't run for office to be told what to think by someone half my age and none of my experience, who has the luxury of contemplating only one aspect of a particular decision and doesn't even recognize pandering when he himself is the object.
It's So Silly
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Bric-A-Brac":
OH MY GOD....
"Chris Watts expertise is the way of the future."
Not really. The future requires people with similar skills to be able to execute them without making an enemy of everyone. Believe it or not, you can't be right every time. He feels that his opinion is the only valid opinion. Personally his expertise is of today. The future will be different as technology evolves.
"Chris needs to think seriously at taking a seat at the table next term..."
I hope not. The last thing we need at the table is another diva that is not willing to work with others.
I think Watts' grade 4 report card probably said "Does not play well with others".
*************
There's a common perception a person who chooses to express an opinion in unvarnished terms, is a person who believes there's is only one opinion and of course, it's theirs.
How does one arrive at such conclusion?
Where is the evidence that a person driven to express an opinion would deny anyone else[s right to do the same and the possibility there might be different opinions?
Why does the critic not choose to refute the opinion rather than simply dismiss it with haughty rigeur?
Why does the idea everyone should share the same opinion and "play well together"deserve to be considered seriously?
Why am I even responding to such nincompoopery?
OH MY GOD....
"Chris Watts expertise is the way of the future."
Not really. The future requires people with similar skills to be able to execute them without making an enemy of everyone. Believe it or not, you can't be right every time. He feels that his opinion is the only valid opinion. Personally his expertise is of today. The future will be different as technology evolves.
"Chris needs to think seriously at taking a seat at the table next term..."
I hope not. The last thing we need at the table is another diva that is not willing to work with others.
I think Watts' grade 4 report card probably said "Does not play well with others".
*************
There's a common perception a person who chooses to express an opinion in unvarnished terms, is a person who believes there's is only one opinion and of course, it's theirs.
How does one arrive at such conclusion?
Where is the evidence that a person driven to express an opinion would deny anyone else[s right to do the same and the possibility there might be different opinions?
Why does the critic not choose to refute the opinion rather than simply dismiss it with haughty rigeur?
Why does the idea everyone should share the same opinion and "play well together"deserve to be considered seriously?
Why am I even responding to such nincompoopery?
Mardi Gras In Aurora Is Spectacular ..Kudos To The Ladies Who Organise It And The Contributors Who Make It Happen.
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Bric-A-Brac":
I saw the recent Mardi Gras articles in the paper. I wonder where Evelyn and particularly Christopher Watts stand on this event? I would ask Mr Watts on his blog but you need to sign up in order to post anything, I am not prepared to do that.
It seems to me that this event is as elitist as some of the other events that Mr Watts has issues with
*************
Mardi Gras at the Mansion (Di Nardos) is a spectacular event. I went as a guest to the one before last.
I sat at the table of the ladies who organised the affair. It was a magical evening. The decor was magical. The ambiance is breathtaking. People wore costumes and masks.
Everything was donated. Funds raised were for the cancer centre at the hospital.
It was only elite as far as people who supported the cause, were willing to contribute and have a wonderful evening of fun and entertainment while they were at it.
Everyone involved should be commended. They dun good.
I've tried to comment to Christopher's posts. I was willing to sign in. I have never figured out how to do that. Not sufficiently computer literate I guess but not inclined to blame Christopher for that.
I saw the recent Mardi Gras articles in the paper. I wonder where Evelyn and particularly Christopher Watts stand on this event? I would ask Mr Watts on his blog but you need to sign up in order to post anything, I am not prepared to do that.
It seems to me that this event is as elitist as some of the other events that Mr Watts has issues with
*************
Mardi Gras at the Mansion (Di Nardos) is a spectacular event. I went as a guest to the one before last.
I sat at the table of the ladies who organised the affair. It was a magical evening. The decor was magical. The ambiance is breathtaking. People wore costumes and masks.
Everything was donated. Funds raised were for the cancer centre at the hospital.
It was only elite as far as people who supported the cause, were willing to contribute and have a wonderful evening of fun and entertainment while they were at it.
Everyone involved should be commended. They dun good.
I've tried to comment to Christopher's posts. I was willing to sign in. I have never figured out how to do that. Not sufficiently computer literate I guess but not inclined to blame Christopher for that.
Reading Comprehension Is Not As It Should Be
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "I"m Fine Thank You":
"For more than thirty years neither Aurora or Newmarket has discharged clean and clear effluent into the carrying stream that leads to the East Holland River."
So it is okay to continue this practice? I don't think so. Just because we have done something for 30 years doesn't make it right!
*************
I publish the above comment to illustrate lack of reading comprehension.We had that problem with leading council members in the last term.
The sentence quoted states Aurora and Newmarket have NOT discharged effluent into the East Holland River for more than thirty years.The commenter read the opposite.
But there was a problem. Waste water treated in a tertiary treatment system , though clean and clear at the end of te process .is "dead" Ozygen has been removed . Dead water, in greater quantity than the capacity of the carrying stream kills live water. Algae multiplies. Fish suffocate.
Tannery creek is a cold water stream . In the past, before urbanisation, trout were plentiful. Upstream from the tanneries of course.
The tertiary treatment system worked well. but in a flash flood, the gates had to be opened and raw sewage released into the creek. There were no storm sewers in the old town.Storm water filtered into the sewer system . The gates had to be opened to keep raw sewage from backing up into basements.
The town undertook to re-construct the entire old town road system and separate storm and sanitary systems in the process. We completed the task in twenty-five years. Now it's complained that storm water is waste water.
Sometimes I think the only thing that would calm the vociferous clean freaks in the community would be for humans to abandon the planet .
When I was Mayor, the Ontario Water Resources declared the treatment plant at capacity. Development was frozen.
The oil crisis happened.
Interest rates climbed to double digits.We had no assessment growth to cover runaway inflation.
Farmers dumped dead cows at bank entrances and clogged city streets with tractors to signify desperation.
Small retail business paid more interest on a working overdraft than they earned.
It was a tough time.
We borrowed money. Bought Jack Woods farm to develop a showcase industrial park.
And so it came to pass.
In time for someone else to take the credit and build that serpentine section of the Industrial parkway.
C'est La vie in Politiques !
"For more than thirty years neither Aurora or Newmarket has discharged clean and clear effluent into the carrying stream that leads to the East Holland River."
So it is okay to continue this practice? I don't think so. Just because we have done something for 30 years doesn't make it right!
*************
I publish the above comment to illustrate lack of reading comprehension.We had that problem with leading council members in the last term.
The sentence quoted states Aurora and Newmarket have NOT discharged effluent into the East Holland River for more than thirty years.The commenter read the opposite.
But there was a problem. Waste water treated in a tertiary treatment system , though clean and clear at the end of te process .is "dead" Ozygen has been removed . Dead water, in greater quantity than the capacity of the carrying stream kills live water. Algae multiplies. Fish suffocate.
Tannery creek is a cold water stream . In the past, before urbanisation, trout were plentiful. Upstream from the tanneries of course.
The tertiary treatment system worked well. but in a flash flood, the gates had to be opened and raw sewage released into the creek. There were no storm sewers in the old town.Storm water filtered into the sewer system . The gates had to be opened to keep raw sewage from backing up into basements.
The town undertook to re-construct the entire old town road system and separate storm and sanitary systems in the process. We completed the task in twenty-five years. Now it's complained that storm water is waste water.
Sometimes I think the only thing that would calm the vociferous clean freaks in the community would be for humans to abandon the planet .
When I was Mayor, the Ontario Water Resources declared the treatment plant at capacity. Development was frozen.
The oil crisis happened.
Interest rates climbed to double digits.We had no assessment growth to cover runaway inflation.
Farmers dumped dead cows at bank entrances and clogged city streets with tractors to signify desperation.
Small retail business paid more interest on a working overdraft than they earned.
It was a tough time.
We borrowed money. Bought Jack Woods farm to develop a showcase industrial park.
And so it came to pass.
In time for someone else to take the credit and build that serpentine section of the Industrial parkway.
C'est La vie in Politiques !
Wednesday, 25 January 2012
Bric-A-Brac
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Clearly and Succinctly":
I was watching last night, and here is something that has been bothering me lately. It is becoming a habit of some councillors, clearly exhibited twice last night by Clr. Ballard, to request a recorded vote AFTER the general show of hands vote was completed. Is that permitted?
**********
It's another of the many changes made during the last term. It wasn't worth fighting about considering all the other stuff that was going on.
*****************
Chris Watts is a friend, I have tremendous respect for his intellect and self- expression.
My grandchildren think he is....POW !!! WOW!!!!.
He's like the engineer who blasts holes through mountains so trains can get to where they need to go..
A toothpick doesn't cut it .
Newspapers, radio, television, movies are all losing status in the field of communication. Change is happening at a rapid fire pace.
Chris Watts expertise is the way of the future.
His style of communication could be the inevitable gut reaction of a razor sharp mind to the upchuck politically correct style of the generation ahead of him.
Smooth and Unctuous, he is not.
How refreshing!
I was watching last night, and here is something that has been bothering me lately. It is becoming a habit of some councillors, clearly exhibited twice last night by Clr. Ballard, to request a recorded vote AFTER the general show of hands vote was completed. Is that permitted?
**********
It's another of the many changes made during the last term. It wasn't worth fighting about considering all the other stuff that was going on.
*****************
Chris Watts is a friend, I have tremendous respect for his intellect and self- expression.
My grandchildren think he is....POW !!! WOW!!!!.
He's like the engineer who blasts holes through mountains so trains can get to where they need to go..
A toothpick doesn't cut it .
Newspapers, radio, television, movies are all losing status in the field of communication. Change is happening at a rapid fire pace.
Chris Watts expertise is the way of the future.
His style of communication could be the inevitable gut reaction of a razor sharp mind to the upchuck politically correct style of the generation ahead of him.
Smooth and Unctuous, he is not.
How refreshing!
Clearly and Succinctly
It's how a point of order is defined in Rules of Order.
Last night, the Mayor provided a perfect illustration of failure to use the rules to maintain order and demonstrate impartiality.
The question before council was a recommendation to authorize a demolition permit for a heritage structure.
The agenda of four items had to be approved by resolution. No objections were raised..The meeting proceeded.
The motion for demolition was duly moved and seconded. Then a Councillor moved immediately to "pull".the item from the agenda.
The Mayor proceeded with a motion , re-stated by himself, to defer. A kerfuffle emerged..The mover of the motion to approve offered to withdraw the motion.
It was pointed out, a motion duly moved and seconded is on the table. Council is in possession of the motion..It no longer belongs to the mover
Refusal to grant the permit was argued. It morphed into future use and access to the property.
A point of order was raised. The Councillor's argument had strayed from the question. The chair. ruled the argument could continue.
A motion was again made to defer the decision. And defeated. The Mayor voted. in support of the deferral.A subsequent vote on the permit approval was approved. The Mayor voted in support.
Council spent many hours in 2011 reviewing the procedure bylaw. An expert was brought in for a peer review. He found the instrument to be satisfactory.
It doesn't matter a hill of beans, if a bylaw was brought down from the mountain, chiseled on tablets of stone, by a man with a long white beard and sandals, claiming divine intervention, if there is no understanding of the rules, there can be no fairness in their application. Order inevitably deteriorates.
The flaw in procedure is not entirely of this Mayor's making.
The late Dick Illingworth and former Aurora Mayor was responsible.
Richard was a man of strong convictions. And grouchy. He thought by not voting, a Mayor could hide or avoid taking a position. It never stopped him.
Prior practice required the presiding member to vote only to break a tie.
Richard, in a series of moves which cost him the Mayor's Chair, became assistant to John White,a Minister of Municipal Affairs. The Honourable Member was something of a dilettante.
The two made the rounds of municipal conferences.
Richard carried a six quart basket covered by a snowy white napkin. Contents were the makings for the Minister's favourite cocktail. It's all I recall about the man.
Richard prevailed upon him to deliver an edict requiring Ontario Mayors to vote on every question
When a Mayor votes, his position is obvious but any semblance of impartiality disappears into smoke and mirrors.
The processs was not improved by the new imperative.
Leadership is not about imposing faulty logic.
It's about winning and maintaining trust.
Clearly, succinctly and simply.
.
Last night, the Mayor provided a perfect illustration of failure to use the rules to maintain order and demonstrate impartiality.
The question before council was a recommendation to authorize a demolition permit for a heritage structure.
The agenda of four items had to be approved by resolution. No objections were raised..The meeting proceeded.
The motion for demolition was duly moved and seconded. Then a Councillor moved immediately to "pull".the item from the agenda.
The Mayor proceeded with a motion , re-stated by himself, to defer. A kerfuffle emerged..The mover of the motion to approve offered to withdraw the motion.
It was pointed out, a motion duly moved and seconded is on the table. Council is in possession of the motion..It no longer belongs to the mover
Refusal to grant the permit was argued. It morphed into future use and access to the property.
A point of order was raised. The Councillor's argument had strayed from the question. The chair. ruled the argument could continue.
A motion was again made to defer the decision. And defeated. The Mayor voted. in support of the deferral.A subsequent vote on the permit approval was approved. The Mayor voted in support.
Council spent many hours in 2011 reviewing the procedure bylaw. An expert was brought in for a peer review. He found the instrument to be satisfactory.
It doesn't matter a hill of beans, if a bylaw was brought down from the mountain, chiseled on tablets of stone, by a man with a long white beard and sandals, claiming divine intervention, if there is no understanding of the rules, there can be no fairness in their application. Order inevitably deteriorates.
The flaw in procedure is not entirely of this Mayor's making.
The late Dick Illingworth and former Aurora Mayor was responsible.
Richard was a man of strong convictions. And grouchy. He thought by not voting, a Mayor could hide or avoid taking a position. It never stopped him.
Prior practice required the presiding member to vote only to break a tie.
Richard, in a series of moves which cost him the Mayor's Chair, became assistant to John White,a Minister of Municipal Affairs. The Honourable Member was something of a dilettante.
The two made the rounds of municipal conferences.
Richard carried a six quart basket covered by a snowy white napkin. Contents were the makings for the Minister's favourite cocktail. It's all I recall about the man.
Richard prevailed upon him to deliver an edict requiring Ontario Mayors to vote on every question
When a Mayor votes, his position is obvious but any semblance of impartiality disappears into smoke and mirrors.
The processs was not improved by the new imperative.
Leadership is not about imposing faulty logic.
It's about winning and maintaining trust.
Clearly, succinctly and simply.
.
Tuesday, 24 January 2012
I"m Fine Thank You
I don't often have to think about my health. All things considered, it's good. I was busy at the week-end, going through the budget with a fine-tooth comb and responding to comments. I was looking forward to Councillors have an opportunity to impact the budget with their own ideas.
My task was not complete by the time I went to the town hall last night.I left the meeting at nine-thirty p.m. I felt my head bowed low with a sense of complete futility and exhaustion.
Even Mormac did not have that effect on my spirits.
I cited a few items culled from the budget. Not the complete list. Some were discussed. The first item was not mine. .
South Lake Simcoe Conservation Authority made a request . in October for work on the East Holland river. IN Aurora it's identified as Tannery Creek..The memo received last night indicated, if we contribute $20,000, it would be "leveraged" to a $100,000 of service. I asked how that would be accomplished. The Treasurer was unable to supply details.
Councillor Ballard was in support. He said: we should give them the money. "we use the river We dump waste into it"
For more than thirty years neither Aurora or Newmarket has discharged clean and clear effluent into the carrying stream that leads to the East Holland River.
Mayor Dawe supported Councillor Ballard. Said he didn't think that wasCouncillor Ballard's reference. .
The Mayor thought he meant the garbage we dump into the river.
At that point, the sinking feeling overcame me.
When I left, the recommendation for three contract positions to be converted to permanent status at a cost of $77,300 was up for discussion.
The Chief Administrative Officer indicated extra cost was due in part to the employees becoming union members.
Flexibility in Recreation and parks programs is created by use of seasonal contract positions.Programs may differ from year to year. Manpower needs may be less or more
Reserves were the next item.We have $69 million . This year we will add , $1,240 million from 2011 budget surplus.Share of the gas tax share from the Federal government adds an additional $1,419.million.
Councillor Thompson thought the tax could be reduced by $125,thousand .I thought the whole thing could be eliminated.
The Treasurer said:
"CURRENT TAXPAYERS ARE NOT PAYING THEIR SHARE FOR REPAIR AND REPLACEMENT WHICH ARE GOING TO BE NEEDED AS FACILITIES AGE"
The Mayor supported the cut of $125,thousand because a Finance Committee is proposed by Councillor Thompson. His stated preference is" to have something put by for a rainy day"
When I left, the recommendation for three contract positions to be converted to permanent status at a cost of $77,300 was up for discussion.
The Chief Administrative Officer indicated extra cost was due in part to the employees becoming union members.
Flexibility in Recreation and parks programs is created by use of seasonal contract positions.Programs may differ from year to year. Manpower needs may be less or more
Facility user fees are impacted by the cost of operation .Five other contract positions alternate between parks and works. If all seven contract employees received the same consideration, and why not, the costwould be an extra $203,900 on the backs of taxpayers. And that would only be the start.
I listened to the argument about why council is compelled to honour an agreement that hands over a building , rent-ree that cost $3million to renovate, $150.thousand to maintain. plus a generous $353.thousand bundle of cash to a self-appointed board of management, accountable to no-one
The Mayor pomdered aloud, "What would people say about a municipality that doesn't honour legal agreements?
The expenditure represents close to 2 percentage points in the tax rate.
I left before the decision to make three out of five contract employees full time and add them to the union.
I need to husband my resources. The final budget, pretty much the same as the draft document, received approval in committee. It will be presented to council for approval.
Monday, 23 January 2012
What !
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Come On.....Get With The Program":
Ah but this blog is written by someone sitting on council and is titled, "Our Town and its Business".
It doesn't make sense to ignore those in our town with whom an elected politician disagrees and hope hope that those with a different viewpoint will "blow away".
If this blog were a personal blog written by someone not sitting on council, Anonymous 10:04AM might have a point.
************
Comments containing a smidgen of argument are posted. Even if they are mostly hinged on personal invective.
Comments that are nothing but personal invective are posted occasionally as an example of nothing to contribute to the discussion.
Mostly they are blown away at the discretion of moi.
Anyone can write a blog. Councillor Ballard does.
Anyone can post a comment to a blog.
The only guarantee of publication, is to write a blog
Ah but this blog is written by someone sitting on council and is titled, "Our Town and its Business".
It doesn't make sense to ignore those in our town with whom an elected politician disagrees and hope hope that those with a different viewpoint will "blow away".
If this blog were a personal blog written by someone not sitting on council, Anonymous 10:04AM might have a point.
************
Comments containing a smidgen of argument are posted. Even if they are mostly hinged on personal invective.
Comments that are nothing but personal invective are posted occasionally as an example of nothing to contribute to the discussion.
Mostly they are blown away at the discretion of moi.
Anyone can write a blog. Councillor Ballard does.
Anyone can post a comment to a blog.
The only guarantee of publication, is to write a blog
Watery Financial Affairs
The budget got the better of me yesterday. I didn't finish it. I will try again today. I learned stuff from re-reading about how water revenue is generated.
We know the Region is responsible for supply of water to municipalities. Five years ago,a stand pipe was constructed on Ontario Hospital Property on Bloomington Road Water supplied came from Lake Ontario via Halton /Peel Region. We were informed it was to augment our aquifer supply during hot dry spells
It was to be a very small percentage of our supply. Aurora had to approve the new supply.
Documentation in the 2012 budget indicates seventy-five per cent of water supplied by York Region comes from Peel/Halton; only twenty-five per cent from the Aurora aquifer.
It appears wholesale water supply charges are discussed in a meeting of the financial officers of York Region. That would be ten.
It's interesting. for several reasons. It means prices are calculated at several points. Peel/Halton are involved . They would calculate wholesale water charges. Then the Region of York would calculate their wholesale water charges.on top of Peel/ Halton's.
Then local municipalities would calculate their water charges on top of Peel/Halton and York Region.
Presumably, since they met together, they would agree what those charges would be.I think, in the private sector, there may be a law against that process. It's called price-fixing.
Presumably the meetings would be open and transparent. Yet I have never heard a whisper about them.
Development in Aurora and Newmarket hinge upon availability of hard services;water and sewers.
Yet sewage is carried away elsewhere to be treated and now we learn 75% of water comes from
elsewhere
Since 2010, regional water rates have increased every year and are intended to be increased by ten per cent a year until 2015. That's a compound process. Likely gets close to 100% increase in five years
Water is a natural resource. It is not manufactured. .
Presumably the cost is to cover buying water from outside the Region and pumping 25% from the aquifer.
During the last term,I sought assurance from a regional official in a public meeting in Aurora that the ground water supply continued to be plentiful. Assurance was forthcoming.
Protection of the well recharge area, was offered as a reason for a cockamamie salt removal,snow melt treatment system costing hundreds of thousands of dollars and still in the capital budget
The Region carried out a huge study. no doubt at great expense to determine threats to the ground water supply. Road salt was not a threat.
If we are only drawing twenty-five per cent of our supply from the ground, who bother. Why don't we just import all of it from Lake Ontario. Then we can stop worrying and spending money dreaming up schemes to protect the aquifer. It would certainly represent ultimate protection for the Oak Ridges Moraine.
Developers are paying high development charges to the Region for infrastructure for the supply of water.
At town level, infrastructure for distribution is constructed and paid for by developers.
Where then does extra cost for infrastructure to supply water come from?
Apparently to create reserves.
Those pesky reserves again. They just keep popping up everywhere.
The Region is said to be wrestling with the problem of water loss. They do not distribute water. Where would potential for water loss be?
We have 178 kms of water lines in Aurora. I don't have the budget book in front of me at the moment so the figure is from re-call. There's a difference between water and sewer lines. One is more than the other. It's water I think. Archerhill subdivision, twelve or fourteen estate lots with water but no sewers.
Nine water breaks a year occur in the system.
Yet capital expenditures of hundreds of thousands of dollars a year have and continue to be invested for maintenance of infrastructure.
In 2010, annual water loss was calculated to have increased from 8% to 12%. The new figure was used, in part,to justify a 12% increase in 2010 water rates.
How can water loss increase ,while infrastructure maintenance sees millions invested.
Does a total of nine water breaks a year justify investing ongoing millions in maintenance?
I am told fresh new pipes are cut into to introduce plastic lining. People have seen it.
We have not yet had the discussion on the water budget. The questions have not been asked. The answers will be interesting if I am permitted to ask them.
$116,000 has been transferred from the water rate budget to parks. A figure of; $293,000 has also been transferred that the administration can no longer support in the water budget. The administration has not revealed what it is they can no longer support.
Input from people who know about this stuff is welcome.
P.S. A plan is being floated to provide services from Lake Simcoe for urban development of millions of acres of northern York Region It would take a ton of public investment to get that sucker off the ground.and into the Lake. The Region is already $2 billion in debt.
P.P.S. Where, I wonder, are they planning to find the finances ? Shouldn't we know about that? Can we trust the blighters?
We know the Region is responsible for supply of water to municipalities. Five years ago,a stand pipe was constructed on Ontario Hospital Property on Bloomington Road Water supplied came from Lake Ontario via Halton /Peel Region. We were informed it was to augment our aquifer supply during hot dry spells
It was to be a very small percentage of our supply. Aurora had to approve the new supply.
Documentation in the 2012 budget indicates seventy-five per cent of water supplied by York Region comes from Peel/Halton; only twenty-five per cent from the Aurora aquifer.
It appears wholesale water supply charges are discussed in a meeting of the financial officers of York Region. That would be ten.
It's interesting. for several reasons. It means prices are calculated at several points. Peel/Halton are involved . They would calculate wholesale water charges. Then the Region of York would calculate their wholesale water charges.on top of Peel/ Halton's.
Then local municipalities would calculate their water charges on top of Peel/Halton and York Region.
Presumably, since they met together, they would agree what those charges would be.I think, in the private sector, there may be a law against that process. It's called price-fixing.
Presumably the meetings would be open and transparent. Yet I have never heard a whisper about them.
Development in Aurora and Newmarket hinge upon availability of hard services;water and sewers.
Yet sewage is carried away elsewhere to be treated and now we learn 75% of water comes from
elsewhere
Since 2010, regional water rates have increased every year and are intended to be increased by ten per cent a year until 2015. That's a compound process. Likely gets close to 100% increase in five years
Water is a natural resource. It is not manufactured. .
Presumably the cost is to cover buying water from outside the Region and pumping 25% from the aquifer.
During the last term,I sought assurance from a regional official in a public meeting in Aurora that the ground water supply continued to be plentiful. Assurance was forthcoming.
Protection of the well recharge area, was offered as a reason for a cockamamie salt removal,snow melt treatment system costing hundreds of thousands of dollars and still in the capital budget
The Region carried out a huge study. no doubt at great expense to determine threats to the ground water supply. Road salt was not a threat.
If we are only drawing twenty-five per cent of our supply from the ground, who bother. Why don't we just import all of it from Lake Ontario. Then we can stop worrying and spending money dreaming up schemes to protect the aquifer. It would certainly represent ultimate protection for the Oak Ridges Moraine.
Developers are paying high development charges to the Region for infrastructure for the supply of water.
At town level, infrastructure for distribution is constructed and paid for by developers.
Where then does extra cost for infrastructure to supply water come from?
Apparently to create reserves.
Those pesky reserves again. They just keep popping up everywhere.
The Region is said to be wrestling with the problem of water loss. They do not distribute water. Where would potential for water loss be?
We have 178 kms of water lines in Aurora. I don't have the budget book in front of me at the moment so the figure is from re-call. There's a difference between water and sewer lines. One is more than the other. It's water I think. Archerhill subdivision, twelve or fourteen estate lots with water but no sewers.
Nine water breaks a year occur in the system.
Yet capital expenditures of hundreds of thousands of dollars a year have and continue to be invested for maintenance of infrastructure.
In 2010, annual water loss was calculated to have increased from 8% to 12%. The new figure was used, in part,to justify a 12% increase in 2010 water rates.
How can water loss increase ,while infrastructure maintenance sees millions invested.
Does a total of nine water breaks a year justify investing ongoing millions in maintenance?
I am told fresh new pipes are cut into to introduce plastic lining. People have seen it.
We have not yet had the discussion on the water budget. The questions have not been asked. The answers will be interesting if I am permitted to ask them.
$116,000 has been transferred from the water rate budget to parks. A figure of; $293,000 has also been transferred that the administration can no longer support in the water budget. The administration has not revealed what it is they can no longer support.
Input from people who know about this stuff is welcome.
P.S. A plan is being floated to provide services from Lake Simcoe for urban development of millions of acres of northern York Region It would take a ton of public investment to get that sucker off the ground.and into the Lake. The Region is already $2 billion in debt.
P.P.S. Where, I wonder, are they planning to find the finances ? Shouldn't we know about that? Can we trust the blighters?
Bullfrog Power... The Guest Post I Re-typed
The comment below about Bullfrog Power represents a tremendous effort. Both in knowing what questions to ask and pursuing information wherever it existed and compiling it into simple, continual and readable form.
John Abel received it and forwarded it to me. I felt the need to share it.
Whoever you are, on behalf of the people I represent in Aurora,I express our appreciation for your excellent enterprise and contribution to a well-informed community.
It is the program
John Abel received it and forwarded it to me. I felt the need to share it.
Whoever you are, on behalf of the people I represent in Aurora,I express our appreciation for your excellent enterprise and contribution to a well-informed community.
It is the program
Everything To Know About...Saturday Night Live Aurora
Bill Allison has left a new comment on your post "Time Out At The Legion....Burns Night":
Hi Evelyn,
Glad you enjoyed the show! Here is a bit about each of the acts that you mention.
The White Heather Pipes & Drums is a community pipe band here in Aurora. Started in the early '90s, the initial Pipe Major was Bob Dunsmore, who also addressed the Haggis on Saturday night. He was followed by myself for a few years, and the current Pipe Major is David Veitch. Lead Drummer is Kathleen Daly. The band plays in local parades and concerts and in competitions on the Ontario circuit. Burns' night is the bands biggest event of the year. They practice on Thursday nights in Aurora, are always looking for new members, both young and old, and provide group instruction for free. One on one piping instruction is also available through the Pipe Major or Ellen Mole, drumming instruction by Andy Luck. You can visit their website here http://whiteheather.fateback.com/.
Amanda Jones is a Newmarket resident who, as you might expect, performs as a professional opera singer in Toronto as often as she can, and she also sings Jazz and Soul with various bands, including that of her father. She began performing with the White Heather three years ago, and she was so interested in the pipe band music that she learned to play the tenor drum. Amanda is an immensely talented musician, as you found out on Saturday. I have heard her sing many time in practice and in performances, and she blows me away every time. She was accompanied on piano by Andy Luck, who is an elementary school music teacher, and a very talented multi-instrument musician in his own rite.
The dance band is called Hadrian's Wall, and they do indeed come from Glengarry county in eastern Ontario, a hotbed of Candian/Scottish culture, home of the North American Championship awarding Glengarry Highland Games, and my home county! The band is led and managed by Neil Emberg, and his/their website is here http://neilemberg.com/.
Thanks for the great review Evelyn. The pipe band will be playing at the Legion on St. Patrick's day (March 17, 2012), and Amanda may just sing one or two Irish songs on that night!!
Bill Allison
Hi Evelyn,
Glad you enjoyed the show! Here is a bit about each of the acts that you mention.
The White Heather Pipes & Drums is a community pipe band here in Aurora. Started in the early '90s, the initial Pipe Major was Bob Dunsmore, who also addressed the Haggis on Saturday night. He was followed by myself for a few years, and the current Pipe Major is David Veitch. Lead Drummer is Kathleen Daly. The band plays in local parades and concerts and in competitions on the Ontario circuit. Burns' night is the bands biggest event of the year. They practice on Thursday nights in Aurora, are always looking for new members, both young and old, and provide group instruction for free. One on one piping instruction is also available through the Pipe Major or Ellen Mole, drumming instruction by Andy Luck. You can visit their website here http://whiteheather.fateback.com/.
Amanda Jones is a Newmarket resident who, as you might expect, performs as a professional opera singer in Toronto as often as she can, and she also sings Jazz and Soul with various bands, including that of her father. She began performing with the White Heather three years ago, and she was so interested in the pipe band music that she learned to play the tenor drum. Amanda is an immensely talented musician, as you found out on Saturday. I have heard her sing many time in practice and in performances, and she blows me away every time. She was accompanied on piano by Andy Luck, who is an elementary school music teacher, and a very talented multi-instrument musician in his own rite.
The dance band is called Hadrian's Wall, and they do indeed come from Glengarry county in eastern Ontario, a hotbed of Candian/Scottish culture, home of the North American Championship awarding Glengarry Highland Games, and my home county! The band is led and managed by Neil Emberg, and his/their website is here http://neilemberg.com/.
Thanks for the great review Evelyn. The pipe band will be playing at the Legion on St. Patrick's day (March 17, 2012), and Amanda may just sing one or two Irish songs on that night!!
Bill Allison
Sunday, 22 January 2012
Come On.....Get With The Program
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "This Is Re-Typed.":
You are passing on ideas without attribution.
Poor show.
It DOES matter whose ideas you are promoting.
Transparency, anyone?
***********
Every day I post anonymous comments. Including the one above.
If you find it hard to absorb the implications of what you read here,I understand.
I find it hard to accept myself and I am in the middle of it.
I deal with it by sharing. By laying it all out. Make of it what you will.
Some find it hard to believe. Others simply don't. They accuse me of all sorts of nefarious activities. Like lying. Distorting. Making it up.Being a puppet. Having someone else manage the blog.
It's never challenged with logic or facts.
Yet it's open to challenge.
Would anyone understand I wonder, if I express the hope, for the sake of the community, it can make a difference.
You are passing on ideas without attribution.
Poor show.
It DOES matter whose ideas you are promoting.
Transparency, anyone?
***********
Every day I post anonymous comments. Including the one above.
If you find it hard to absorb the implications of what you read here,I understand.
I find it hard to accept myself and I am in the middle of it.
I deal with it by sharing. By laying it all out. Make of it what you will.
Some find it hard to believe. Others simply don't. They accuse me of all sorts of nefarious activities. Like lying. Distorting. Making it up.Being a puppet. Having someone else manage the blog.
It's never challenged with logic or facts.
Yet it's open to challenge.
Would anyone understand I wonder, if I express the hope, for the sake of the community, it can make a difference.
This Is Re-Typed.
Try as I would,it would not copy. It was sent to me.I do not know the author, It was too precious not to share.
Bullfrog power
What is Bullfrog Power. It is a private company that sells clean energy.Green energy.One of the most powerful phrases these days. Right behind open and transparent.Noble. Aurora pays $20,000 a year to bullfrog power and by doing so we reduce emissions from electric power production. Our payment makes an incredible impact on the Town's carbon footprint. One Councillor states that we eliminate 145 tonnes of carbon dioxide,430 tonnes of Sulpheric dioxide and 185kg
of nitric oxide. That's an incredible amount of emissions we save from our children. For just $20,000,wow. A Sherman tank weighs 30 tonnes.
The Councillor got his facts from our town's infrastructure department. I can forgive him for the stats. Myself,I found the numbers staggering. Unbelievable.
Are we to believe if we stop paying Bullfrog Power the equivalent of 65 Sherman tanks of CO2 are going to fall on the residents of Aurora, I don't believe it, not for a minute.
Aurora connsumes 800 MKw of electricity each year.
So do we get all that energy from wind turbines? Does bullfrog bypass the Ontario Power Authority grid and supply Aurora with green energy saving the emissions that the OPA burns to feed their grid.
I went to our town's infrastructure department to ask them where these figures cone from.These were calculations from 2008,the ones that the last term used to inform residents about the good they do here in our Town. Infrastructure would get back to me.
Naturally I went to the web site (do not go to the blogs about bullfrog power,they are not nice) There is reference to factors on how emission calculations are arrived at,It is very detailed ,so much so,that I had no way to understand what it was they were talking about. So are the audited financials,but that's another story.
Anyways, after a while I decided to call Bullfrog Power.The person I spoke to, understood the difficulties in my attempt to figure out the method of calculating the emissions. He would send me numbers later in the day and he did. They were half the emission totals that 2008 calculations had arrived at.
So what sources supply our electric grid here here in Ontario.According to Bullfrog power I was told 33% nuclear,27% natural gas,13%coal,22%hydro and 4% wind/solar.
Clean Air Canada states Ontario uses only 4% coal burning power plants to generate electric power.
It's getting confusing.So does $20,000 get us the equivalent of 800 Mkw of coal burning electric power reductions in emissions. Can't get an answer from bullfrog power either. It's not an easy question to answer.
So where does our $20,000 go? Right off the bat 10% goes to partnering non-profit agencies like WWF (World Wildlife Fund) There are over forty staff on Bullfrog's payroll.The rest goes into three Wind Turbine farms in Ontario. Don't know how big these farms are or how much electricity they produce. When we pay our money, Bullfrog pours 800 MKw of wind turbine electricity into the OPA grid. The OPA pays Bullfrog market rates for electricity. (Can we say double-dipping) We still draw our electricity from the grid as we did before. We just feel better about it ,than those not participating,because we get a sticker on the doors of the Town Hall. Bullfrog grows its equity and this private company gets richer,
Can we do better with taxpayers money? Are there options? Absolutely
Municipalities are the Number 2 consumer of electricity in Ontario. It is our responsibility to provide leadership.There are lots of Municipalities featured on Bullfrog's website. There are even a few Mayors that give speeches patting themselves on their backs. One of them was once Aurora's Mayor. She speaks glowingly about herself and Bullfrog.
Clean Air Canada also states that Ontarians have reduced their consumption by 10%.
That's an option that Aurora should explore. Efficiencies and reductions. Lessen the Carbon footprint by reducing our operating expense ,thereby reducing taxes to the residents.
Edmonton has a Revolving Energy Management Fund. Initially it began with $1 million. So quick was the payback, their fund has grown to $30 million. So successful was the program. The idea was to put money into the infrastructure in energy saving equipment, realize the savings ,and once they add up to the funds invested,re-invest into further energy saving equipment. It pays for itself in electric consumption savings.That's leadership. That's where Aurora should be heading.Forget about membership fees to join a fell good club.Let's make a difference right here in our town. Invest in Aurora and save the taxpayers money. Oh yeah, save the world and make it a better place to live, make a difference in the carbon footprint. Next Christmas get a present under the tree instead of a membership in a feel good private company. Geez.
I suspect certain members from the last term were gullible and vain.That can result in poor decisions costing the taxpayers tens of thousands of dollars. Hard earned dollars on the backs of hard-working Aurorans. Got to eliminate that item on this year's budget.
Bullfrog power
What is Bullfrog Power. It is a private company that sells clean energy.Green energy.One of the most powerful phrases these days. Right behind open and transparent.Noble. Aurora pays $20,000 a year to bullfrog power and by doing so we reduce emissions from electric power production. Our payment makes an incredible impact on the Town's carbon footprint. One Councillor states that we eliminate 145 tonnes of carbon dioxide,430 tonnes of Sulpheric dioxide and 185kg
of nitric oxide. That's an incredible amount of emissions we save from our children. For just $20,000,wow. A Sherman tank weighs 30 tonnes.
The Councillor got his facts from our town's infrastructure department. I can forgive him for the stats. Myself,I found the numbers staggering. Unbelievable.
Are we to believe if we stop paying Bullfrog Power the equivalent of 65 Sherman tanks of CO2 are going to fall on the residents of Aurora, I don't believe it, not for a minute.
Aurora connsumes 800 MKw of electricity each year.
So do we get all that energy from wind turbines? Does bullfrog bypass the Ontario Power Authority grid and supply Aurora with green energy saving the emissions that the OPA burns to feed their grid.
I went to our town's infrastructure department to ask them where these figures cone from.These were calculations from 2008,the ones that the last term used to inform residents about the good they do here in our Town. Infrastructure would get back to me.
Naturally I went to the web site (do not go to the blogs about bullfrog power,they are not nice) There is reference to factors on how emission calculations are arrived at,It is very detailed ,so much so,that I had no way to understand what it was they were talking about. So are the audited financials,but that's another story.
Anyways, after a while I decided to call Bullfrog Power.The person I spoke to, understood the difficulties in my attempt to figure out the method of calculating the emissions. He would send me numbers later in the day and he did. They were half the emission totals that 2008 calculations had arrived at.
So what sources supply our electric grid here here in Ontario.According to Bullfrog power I was told 33% nuclear,27% natural gas,13%coal,22%hydro and 4% wind/solar.
Clean Air Canada states Ontario uses only 4% coal burning power plants to generate electric power.
It's getting confusing.So does $20,000 get us the equivalent of 800 Mkw of coal burning electric power reductions in emissions. Can't get an answer from bullfrog power either. It's not an easy question to answer.
So where does our $20,000 go? Right off the bat 10% goes to partnering non-profit agencies like WWF (World Wildlife Fund) There are over forty staff on Bullfrog's payroll.The rest goes into three Wind Turbine farms in Ontario. Don't know how big these farms are or how much electricity they produce. When we pay our money, Bullfrog pours 800 MKw of wind turbine electricity into the OPA grid. The OPA pays Bullfrog market rates for electricity. (Can we say double-dipping) We still draw our electricity from the grid as we did before. We just feel better about it ,than those not participating,because we get a sticker on the doors of the Town Hall. Bullfrog grows its equity and this private company gets richer,
Can we do better with taxpayers money? Are there options? Absolutely
Municipalities are the Number 2 consumer of electricity in Ontario. It is our responsibility to provide leadership.There are lots of Municipalities featured on Bullfrog's website. There are even a few Mayors that give speeches patting themselves on their backs. One of them was once Aurora's Mayor. She speaks glowingly about herself and Bullfrog.
Clean Air Canada also states that Ontarians have reduced their consumption by 10%.
That's an option that Aurora should explore. Efficiencies and reductions. Lessen the Carbon footprint by reducing our operating expense ,thereby reducing taxes to the residents.
Edmonton has a Revolving Energy Management Fund. Initially it began with $1 million. So quick was the payback, their fund has grown to $30 million. So successful was the program. The idea was to put money into the infrastructure in energy saving equipment, realize the savings ,and once they add up to the funds invested,re-invest into further energy saving equipment. It pays for itself in electric consumption savings.That's leadership. That's where Aurora should be heading.Forget about membership fees to join a fell good club.Let's make a difference right here in our town. Invest in Aurora and save the taxpayers money. Oh yeah, save the world and make it a better place to live, make a difference in the carbon footprint. Next Christmas get a present under the tree instead of a membership in a feel good private company. Geez.
I suspect certain members from the last term were gullible and vain.That can result in poor decisions costing the taxpayers tens of thousands of dollars. Hard earned dollars on the backs of hard-working Aurorans. Got to eliminate that item on this year's budget.
A Budget Sample
I haven't finished with my budget cuts but I need to provide a detailed glimpse of an item.
Chances are I won't be allowed to make all my points.
Three contract positions are recommended to become permanent.Cost difference being benefits.
Employee benefits cost approximately $30,000. Municipal benefits are in a class by themselves.
As I listened to the CAO arguing in support of the recommendation, I visualised three workers working in a hole in freezing muck.. Two with security of employment and all benefits and a third not. I voted in favour of the recommendation.
A couple of meetings ago, a contract was awarded for repair of water breaks. There are nine in a year.
I have also since read in the budget.the aforesaid contract positions are in a seasonal recreation facility.
User fees relate to cost of facility operation.
Leisure Services is responsible for calculating user fees. But now not for the cost of operation.
In re-organisation during the last term, management of facilities was transferred to Environment and Infrastructure.That department has no responsibility for user fees. It dips directly into taxpayers' pockets.
The recommendation to make contract positions permanent does not refer to impact on user fees. No off-setting revenue is projected.
Readers of this blog are aware because I do repeat, I did not vote for re-organisation of the administration.
My main concern was newness of the management team. Now known as " Executive Leadership Team". No time was taken to determine how the municipality functioned before the decision was made for wholesale change.
Directors appointed with professional credentials for specific responsibilities and compensated commensurately, were stripped of responsibilities. Directors appointed without credentials for specific responsibilities received the responsibilities and were commensurately compensated for credentials they did not possess.
Placement on pay grids were changed. Some went up, others with the credentials went down.
Circumstances since then support my initial opposition. Some I can't discuss. This one I can.
The recommendation for contract employees in seasonal occupations to become permanent makes no sense.
Contract employment opportunity is gladly sought and accepted. $70,000. savings are realised.
User fees are more affordable because of seasonal contract positions and part-time employment.
It makes facility use affordable.
Without affordability, providing public facilities for recreation cannot be justified.
Taking responsibility for managing facilities from the department responsible for controlling costs made no sense when the decison was made. Herewith, the evidence to prove it.
It makes as much sense as the the Culture Centre Board's agreement.
If facility users are "clients"..."stakeholders"..."investors" or "customers" which they are,who else could they be. it sure makes a mockery of the new "customer service" plan adopted by this council last year without a budget or an idea of projected costs.
$70,000. is another budget cut that can be made without reducing an iota of service provided.
Now back to the budget analysis
Chances are I won't be allowed to make all my points.
Three contract positions are recommended to become permanent.Cost difference being benefits.
Employee benefits cost approximately $30,000. Municipal benefits are in a class by themselves.
As I listened to the CAO arguing in support of the recommendation, I visualised three workers working in a hole in freezing muck.. Two with security of employment and all benefits and a third not. I voted in favour of the recommendation.
A couple of meetings ago, a contract was awarded for repair of water breaks. There are nine in a year.
I have also since read in the budget.the aforesaid contract positions are in a seasonal recreation facility.
User fees relate to cost of facility operation.
Leisure Services is responsible for calculating user fees. But now not for the cost of operation.
In re-organisation during the last term, management of facilities was transferred to Environment and Infrastructure.That department has no responsibility for user fees. It dips directly into taxpayers' pockets.
The recommendation to make contract positions permanent does not refer to impact on user fees. No off-setting revenue is projected.
Readers of this blog are aware because I do repeat, I did not vote for re-organisation of the administration.
My main concern was newness of the management team. Now known as " Executive Leadership Team". No time was taken to determine how the municipality functioned before the decision was made for wholesale change.
Directors appointed with professional credentials for specific responsibilities and compensated commensurately, were stripped of responsibilities. Directors appointed without credentials for specific responsibilities received the responsibilities and were commensurately compensated for credentials they did not possess.
Placement on pay grids were changed. Some went up, others with the credentials went down.
Circumstances since then support my initial opposition. Some I can't discuss. This one I can.
The recommendation for contract employees in seasonal occupations to become permanent makes no sense.
Contract employment opportunity is gladly sought and accepted. $70,000. savings are realised.
User fees are more affordable because of seasonal contract positions and part-time employment.
It makes facility use affordable.
Without affordability, providing public facilities for recreation cannot be justified.
Taking responsibility for managing facilities from the department responsible for controlling costs made no sense when the decison was made. Herewith, the evidence to prove it.
It makes as much sense as the the Culture Centre Board's agreement.
If facility users are "clients"..."stakeholders"..."investors" or "customers" which they are,who else could they be. it sure makes a mockery of the new "customer service" plan adopted by this council last year without a budget or an idea of projected costs.
$70,000. is another budget cut that can be made without reducing an iota of service provided.
Now back to the budget analysis
Time Out At The Legion....Burns Night
Burns Night at the Legion last night. An excellent evening of food and entertainment.
Highlight of the evening was the White Heather Pipe Band. Highlight of the band was the powerful, beautiful, ringing voice of Amanda Jones. Accompanied by sixteen bagpipes, her voice rang clear and strong above them.
I do not profess to qualifications. I believe I know the difference between alto and soprano but not enough to speak with certainty. But I know what I like and the voice brought tears to my eyes.
She played a drum as well A young black woman, in a kilt and vest, heavy woollen socks,sturdy walking shoes and a Glengarry bonnet.She sang four songs including When the Pipers Play and Amazing Grace. From the first note, we knew we were in the presence of something extraordinary.
The entire band was extraordinary in everything they presented. After the concert, the group from Gengarry County in Eastern Ontario who regularly come down to entertain at the Aurora Legion on Burns Night, kept the dance floor filled and jigging. It was an outstanding evening.
I left wondering. I'm still wondering. Is Amanda Jones like so many others with amazing talent, who get to shine on an occasional week-end. Only her name was on the program. She wasn't introduced separately. She wasn't asked to come forward to take a bow. She could not have known from separate applause how her voice had enthralled us.
If anyone out there wants to fill in on background of Amanda Jones. The White Heather Pipe Band and the Ceilidh group from Glengarry County, I would be glad to publish it here.
The closest I can compare is to the voice of Kiri Jeanette Te Kanawa . The New Zealand Maori opera
soprano who achieved world renown who until now, to my ear, has been incomparable.
Highlight of the evening was the White Heather Pipe Band. Highlight of the band was the powerful, beautiful, ringing voice of Amanda Jones. Accompanied by sixteen bagpipes, her voice rang clear and strong above them.
I do not profess to qualifications. I believe I know the difference between alto and soprano but not enough to speak with certainty. But I know what I like and the voice brought tears to my eyes.
She played a drum as well A young black woman, in a kilt and vest, heavy woollen socks,sturdy walking shoes and a Glengarry bonnet.She sang four songs including When the Pipers Play and Amazing Grace. From the first note, we knew we were in the presence of something extraordinary.
The entire band was extraordinary in everything they presented. After the concert, the group from Gengarry County in Eastern Ontario who regularly come down to entertain at the Aurora Legion on Burns Night, kept the dance floor filled and jigging. It was an outstanding evening.
I left wondering. I'm still wondering. Is Amanda Jones like so many others with amazing talent, who get to shine on an occasional week-end. Only her name was on the program. She wasn't introduced separately. She wasn't asked to come forward to take a bow. She could not have known from separate applause how her voice had enthralled us.
If anyone out there wants to fill in on background of Amanda Jones. The White Heather Pipe Band and the Ceilidh group from Glengarry County, I would be glad to publish it here.
The closest I can compare is to the voice of Kiri Jeanette Te Kanawa . The New Zealand Maori opera
soprano who achieved world renown who until now, to my ear, has been incomparable.
Saturday, 21 January 2012
Prime Purpose Of A Council Is The Budget
We 'll be back at the budget again on Monday. We agreed to bring a list of items each believes can be cut without reducing service.
The Chief Financial Officer e-mailed from his blackberry afterwards directing the lists be provided by six on Wednesday evening so that staff can prepare for discussion.
I did not do that. Staff have had all the time needed for input. It's council's turn. When approved, it's Council's budget.
Only Council is accountable for its content.
So, this week-end I will pore over figures. There are obvious items. Grants to begin.
Funds in the amount of $361,706 provided to the Culture Centre operation under an unsustainable agreement that certainly can and should be revoked.
A Historical Society grant of $50,000, intended for a museum that doesn't exist.
$50,000 for the Arboretum to spend on their program.
$10,0000 for Smart Commute to encourage car-pooling as if it needs encouragement. People paying the high cost of commuting should not be required to contribute to salaries of people sitting in an office in Newmarket making not a whit of difference to anything. And people not commuting shouldn't be expected to pay for it either.
$8,000. to the Chamber of Commerce to present a certificate in their name, in a banquet facility outside the town, to a successful business in town that lasted a long time with no help from anybody we know about.
Whatever thousands it costs extra for Bullfrog Power for the contradictory notion that supporting the principle of energy conservation should cost more and not less.
Ten thousand dollar membership in an esoteric Institute for Excellence ,so that certificates can hang on an office wall and appear in an employee's resume. We pay people commensurately for skills needed for a particular responsibility. I'm not interested in funding further fol-de-rols from my taxes.
There's reference in a business plan to modernise the town's vacation policy.Because of re-organisation new hires were mistakenly provided with three weeks vacation instead of two.. No doubt "modernisation" is intended to correct the mistake without drawing attention to it.
I will not agree to that. Unions need to bargain hard for improved benefits. They haven't..
There's something called a business retention and expansion program that amounts to creating a data bank. It needs more manpower. I don't see a data bank retaining or expanding business in Aurora. The Region has done it.Sounds like duplication to me.
There's a big dollar figure, almost a million I believe, to construct sidewalks on both sides of the Industrial Parkway.The Mayor says Policy requires it . Time to change the policy. Before you spend the money, not after.
Big numbers for the "Customer Service Plan " that nobody at the council table requested, no budget was provided, before the vote was taken.
Five years of rental revenue for the hydro building, swallowed up by spending on the building. Only a municipality can afford to be that kind of a landlord. We are not supposed to be landlords. It is a function frowned upon by Big Brother Ontario.
A charge against the parks budget for a sewer rate for water used to irrigate that never finds its way to a sewer.
I need to find the line item numbers and whatever else is in there that I am damned well not prepared or willing to ask anyone else in town to pay for.
It's going to be a busy week-end. It is my fervent hope it will not be a waste of time.
The Chief Financial Officer e-mailed from his blackberry afterwards directing the lists be provided by six on Wednesday evening so that staff can prepare for discussion.
I did not do that. Staff have had all the time needed for input. It's council's turn. When approved, it's Council's budget.
Only Council is accountable for its content.
So, this week-end I will pore over figures. There are obvious items. Grants to begin.
Funds in the amount of $361,706 provided to the Culture Centre operation under an unsustainable agreement that certainly can and should be revoked.
A Historical Society grant of $50,000, intended for a museum that doesn't exist.
$50,000 for the Arboretum to spend on their program.
$10,0000 for Smart Commute to encourage car-pooling as if it needs encouragement. People paying the high cost of commuting should not be required to contribute to salaries of people sitting in an office in Newmarket making not a whit of difference to anything. And people not commuting shouldn't be expected to pay for it either.
$8,000. to the Chamber of Commerce to present a certificate in their name, in a banquet facility outside the town, to a successful business in town that lasted a long time with no help from anybody we know about.
Whatever thousands it costs extra for Bullfrog Power for the contradictory notion that supporting the principle of energy conservation should cost more and not less.
Ten thousand dollar membership in an esoteric Institute for Excellence ,so that certificates can hang on an office wall and appear in an employee's resume. We pay people commensurately for skills needed for a particular responsibility. I'm not interested in funding further fol-de-rols from my taxes.
There's reference in a business plan to modernise the town's vacation policy.Because of re-organisation new hires were mistakenly provided with three weeks vacation instead of two.. No doubt "modernisation" is intended to correct the mistake without drawing attention to it.
I will not agree to that. Unions need to bargain hard for improved benefits. They haven't..
There's something called a business retention and expansion program that amounts to creating a data bank. It needs more manpower. I don't see a data bank retaining or expanding business in Aurora. The Region has done it.Sounds like duplication to me.
There's a big dollar figure, almost a million I believe, to construct sidewalks on both sides of the Industrial Parkway.The Mayor says Policy requires it . Time to change the policy. Before you spend the money, not after.
Big numbers for the "Customer Service Plan " that nobody at the council table requested, no budget was provided, before the vote was taken.
Five years of rental revenue for the hydro building, swallowed up by spending on the building. Only a municipality can afford to be that kind of a landlord. We are not supposed to be landlords. It is a function frowned upon by Big Brother Ontario.
A charge against the parks budget for a sewer rate for water used to irrigate that never finds its way to a sewer.
I need to find the line item numbers and whatever else is in there that I am damned well not prepared or willing to ask anyone else in town to pay for.
It's going to be a busy week-end. It is my fervent hope it will not be a waste of time.
What Is Normal ?
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "A Crystal Ball":
This blog appears to re-use/recycle same old ideas/insults/accusations.
Nothing new/enlightening/positive can exist in such an entrenched culture.
Pity.
**************
The blog acquires new readers all the time.They do not read " re-used/re-cycled same old ideas"
Retelling is my way of emphasizing the dastardly deeds of the past. Carving them in stone.
Ensuring they are understood from whatever new context presents.
Warning against repetition.
A chronicle is not a collection of " insults and accusation". It just seems like that. Because the last council was a house of horrors. Except for what they did behind closed doors, it was on view for all to see. All I did and still do is provide pointers.
I make no apology. If and when required, I will keep doing it.
Unfortunately politicians are inclined to the same tendencies. Such as trying to be all things to all people. Many constituents demand it. But it's the opposite of why this council was elected.
Taking the easy way out rather than the road less travelled won't cut it.
The well-worn path easily becomes a slippery slope.
I find myself slipping into the dialogue of a Woody Allen/ Diane Keaton movie I watched in the wee small hours one night last week. It was entirely, endlessly cliche delivered in a serious mien typical of the two. Hilarious and ridiculously compelling.
Now that I have indulged myself maybe I can go back to being normal.
This blog appears to re-use/recycle same old ideas/insults/accusations.
Nothing new/enlightening/positive can exist in such an entrenched culture.
Pity.
**************
The blog acquires new readers all the time.They do not read " re-used/re-cycled same old ideas"
Retelling is my way of emphasizing the dastardly deeds of the past. Carving them in stone.
Ensuring they are understood from whatever new context presents.
Warning against repetition.
A chronicle is not a collection of " insults and accusation". It just seems like that. Because the last council was a house of horrors. Except for what they did behind closed doors, it was on view for all to see. All I did and still do is provide pointers.
I make no apology. If and when required, I will keep doing it.
Unfortunately politicians are inclined to the same tendencies. Such as trying to be all things to all people. Many constituents demand it. But it's the opposite of why this council was elected.
Taking the easy way out rather than the road less travelled won't cut it.
The well-worn path easily becomes a slippery slope.
I find myself slipping into the dialogue of a Woody Allen/ Diane Keaton movie I watched in the wee small hours one night last week. It was entirely, endlessly cliche delivered in a serious mien typical of the two. Hilarious and ridiculously compelling.
Now that I have indulged myself maybe I can go back to being normal.
Friday, 20 January 2012
Aurora Winter Blues Festival
For Your Infomation
Please find a link to information on the Aurora Winter Blues Festival taking place on Saturday February 25th at 7:30pm at Theatre Aurora. Some of the proceeds raised will go towards the Aurora Food Pantry and a "youth in music program". The show will also feature young musicians from York Region.
http://www.aurorawinterbluesfestival.ca/Aurora_Winter_Blues_Festival/AWBF_Home.html
Please find a link to information on the Aurora Winter Blues Festival taking place on Saturday February 25th at 7:30pm at Theatre Aurora. Some of the proceeds raised will go towards the Aurora Food Pantry and a "youth in music program". The show will also feature young musicians from York Region.
http://www.aurorawinterbluesfestival.ca/Aurora_Winter_Blues_Festival/AWBF_Home.html
A Crystal Ball
Jamie Young is the former Mayor of East Gwillimbury. He didn't run in the last election. He said he wanted to spend more time with his family. Jamie was young when first elected. Still young when he retired. Not much time to make a mark.
He has been hosting a panel show on Cable television for several months.
Last week's show could have been interesting .
An editor-in-chief and a couple of reporters formed the panel.The first question was communication within municipal administrations.It led to the question of whether elected officials were being sidelined.
Neither a reporter nor an editor could have had more than an impression to contribute to the topic. But they did. Consensus led by the editor- in- chief seemed to be, professional staff expertise meant anything attempted by an elected official would be interference in the smooth operation of the town's business.
Coming from print media. I thought... AHA.... that explains why the newspaper isn't. It's not about bias, it's about a complete political vacuum.
The host was clearly frustrated. The issue demanded discussion. But he couldn't get a foot or a finger hold.
He complained about trouble finding anyone willing to talk .
He didn't ask me but I'm not sure I would have accepted. Panel discussions are a free-for-all. I don't like fighting to get a word in edgewise. I also like to be able to complete a thought.
Still, he never asked.
But I felt for Jamie.
Under his leadership, East Gwillimbury passed a Code of Conduct. The Mayor and a veteran Councillor were first and only persons complained about. I believe by the CAO, no less.
Municipal Law expert, George Rust D'Eye was retained by the municipality and advised the two would have a conflict of interest if they participated in the discussion. He also advised them to retain legal counsel.
They did. At their own expense.
East Gwillimbury was in chaos for weeks while legal bills were wracked up.
In the end, people filled the council chamber and said, in effect;
Enough of this damned nonsense. Mayor and Marlene get back to work. We will replace the trees that were cut and make sure everything is made right.
The Mayor and Marlene did as bid. The remaining three councillors were glad to have the situation resolved. They obviously had no clue how to get out of the jackpot created.
The CAO demurred, there was still a complaint to answer but no attention was paid and council resumed its function. Whatever else occurred behind the scenes remained there.
The story never really made headlines.
Jamie Young finished the term and did not run again.
I know only what I've seen on television. He demonstrates intelligence. His smile reaches his eyes.He clearly needs to talk about the situation. But he picked the wrong panel.
In the last program hosted, he brought forward the question of authority of elected officials versus appointed. It didn't get off the ground.
He isn't there this week. I caught a glimpse of the program last night. Host and theme escape me.
I wonder, does the editor-in-chief of York Region's news group who seems to believe elected officials should be subservient to professional expertise of appointed officials and a Code of Conduct , despite our experience, should be de rigeur, knows something I do not.
Is hers a view shared by the populace at large.
Is it the change critics claim, I have failed to grasp.
Has our right to govern ourselves slipped through our fingers from failure to take hold?
Next week, our current budget deliberations may provide some insight..
.
He has been hosting a panel show on Cable television for several months.
Last week's show could have been interesting .
An editor-in-chief and a couple of reporters formed the panel.The first question was communication within municipal administrations.It led to the question of whether elected officials were being sidelined.
Neither a reporter nor an editor could have had more than an impression to contribute to the topic. But they did. Consensus led by the editor- in- chief seemed to be, professional staff expertise meant anything attempted by an elected official would be interference in the smooth operation of the town's business.
Coming from print media. I thought... AHA.... that explains why the newspaper isn't. It's not about bias, it's about a complete political vacuum.
The host was clearly frustrated. The issue demanded discussion. But he couldn't get a foot or a finger hold.
He complained about trouble finding anyone willing to talk .
He didn't ask me but I'm not sure I would have accepted. Panel discussions are a free-for-all. I don't like fighting to get a word in edgewise. I also like to be able to complete a thought.
Still, he never asked.
But I felt for Jamie.
Under his leadership, East Gwillimbury passed a Code of Conduct. The Mayor and a veteran Councillor were first and only persons complained about. I believe by the CAO, no less.
Municipal Law expert, George Rust D'Eye was retained by the municipality and advised the two would have a conflict of interest if they participated in the discussion. He also advised them to retain legal counsel.
They did. At their own expense.
East Gwillimbury was in chaos for weeks while legal bills were wracked up.
In the end, people filled the council chamber and said, in effect;
Enough of this damned nonsense. Mayor and Marlene get back to work. We will replace the trees that were cut and make sure everything is made right.
The Mayor and Marlene did as bid. The remaining three councillors were glad to have the situation resolved. They obviously had no clue how to get out of the jackpot created.
The CAO demurred, there was still a complaint to answer but no attention was paid and council resumed its function. Whatever else occurred behind the scenes remained there.
The story never really made headlines.
Jamie Young finished the term and did not run again.
I know only what I've seen on television. He demonstrates intelligence. His smile reaches his eyes.He clearly needs to talk about the situation. But he picked the wrong panel.
In the last program hosted, he brought forward the question of authority of elected officials versus appointed. It didn't get off the ground.
He isn't there this week. I caught a glimpse of the program last night. Host and theme escape me.
I wonder, does the editor-in-chief of York Region's news group who seems to believe elected officials should be subservient to professional expertise of appointed officials and a Code of Conduct , despite our experience, should be de rigeur, knows something I do not.
Is hers a view shared by the populace at large.
Is it the change critics claim, I have failed to grasp.
Has our right to govern ourselves slipped through our fingers from failure to take hold?
Next week, our current budget deliberations may provide some insight..
.
Thursday, 19 January 2012
Timely Intervention
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "What Do They Say":
Don't ever banish them from the blog entirely Evelyn. Let them do themselves in with their own words.
Somewhere, John Stuart Mill is smiling.
*****************
Thank you for your input. I have struggled with that decision. I rejected a comment I received before your own this morning. I've retrieved it. Not that it elevates any of us. Quite the opposite.
But I also think it doesn't deserve protection and most people familiar with the cast of characters will recognize that one.
John Stuart Mill is a familiar name. Now I will have to read what he had to say.
**********************
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "What Do They Say":
Ha Ha Ha - Brilliant!
Bullshit makes the world go 'round and "Our Town and Its Business" is a huge supplier of same.
***********************
Don't ever banish them from the blog entirely Evelyn. Let them do themselves in with their own words.
Somewhere, John Stuart Mill is smiling.
*****************
Thank you for your input. I have struggled with that decision. I rejected a comment I received before your own this morning. I've retrieved it. Not that it elevates any of us. Quite the opposite.
But I also think it doesn't deserve protection and most people familiar with the cast of characters will recognize that one.
John Stuart Mill is a familiar name. Now I will have to read what he had to say.
**********************
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "What Do They Say":
Ha Ha Ha - Brilliant!
Bullshit makes the world go 'round and "Our Town and Its Business" is a huge supplier of same.
***********************
Contradiction In Terms
We are still in the throes of budget. We have heard everything we need to from staff. It is time for Council members to make decisions.. To that end, I proposed each member prepare a list of items in the draft budget, we cannot support. The idea appeared to be acceptable. It wasn't a motion .It's not on the record.
It is how the budget was left on Monday evening.
On Tuesday evening, we had a couple of recommendations that relate to the budget.
One was advice from the Heritage Advisory Committee to approve a demolition permit for the George Browning house on Yonge Street.
Second was from staff to approve creation of two estate lots in the Elderberry Hill subdivision, the neighbourhood previously represented by S.W.A.T. a Ratepayers' Association.
Three votes opposed the demolition permit. The house is an eyesore. It stands empty,bedraggled and a blight on the street scape for the past several years.The owners planned a Montessori School on the site. Neighbours opposed the proposed access, recommended by staff, from a rear lane shared by all .and unbeknownst to the town but owned by the town .
Years have passed. Finally the project is at the point of movement.
The result will undoubtedly be a property currently receiving all municipal services; water, sewer,police protection,fire protection,snow plowing, parks,library; all the wonderful services provided by the Region of York including, I believe $270,000 a year salary for the chairperson. and contributing minimally to its share of the cost, will finally shoulder its share of the tax burden.
The difference in our tax base could potentially tally millions..
The owners followed all required steps in the process. Paid all fees Retained professionals to design plans and make presentations at multiple meetings .All for the privilege of investing resources in the Town of Aurora.
In every sense and reference, they are investors/stakeholders/clients/taxpayers and customers of the Town of Aurora.
The draft budget includes a couple of items related to a new "Customer Service" plan not requested by anyone but recommended by staff. Kinda like the Culture Centre.
We already have a manager of the new service.There's $120,000 in the budget to change the phone service to accommodate the plan. I believe another $200,000 is related. .
The second issue at Tuesday"s meeting was similar.. An empty acreage property in Elderberry Hills recommended by staff to be divided into two lots.
Since the subdivision was approved , the parcel has been vacant, producing minimal revenue . Receiving all town services mentioned above except water and sewers. At one time it was thought to have been set aside for a park and marked Open Space.
At some point hence, the municipality accepted cash -in-lieu of a park which freed the land for development.
A public planning meeting has been held. Meetings with neighbours. Work with staff. Experts hired by owner. Many man hours at town expense. . Application fees charged and paid . All steps directed, compliantly followed.
Two homes will range millions of dollars assessment for the town.
The owner also undoubtedly falls into the investor/stakeholder/client, customer/taxpayer class
In the budget, we have a couple of items related to the new "Customer Service" plan recommended by staff. We already have a manager of the new service ..There's $120,000 in the budget to change the phone service to accommodate the plan.I believe another $200,000 item is related. .
On Tuesday night, the evening following budget deliberations, three members of council voted against issuing a demolition permit for the Browning house to the investor/ stakeholder/client/customer/taxpayer of the Town
Councillor Pirri noted his "personal" choice was not to approve demolition.
The majority voted to defer approval of two estate lots in the Elderberry subdivision.
Councillor Gallo reported to Council, two residents had advised him they were not notified of the application. Former Councillor Evalina MacEachern was in the audience with a friend. Ms MacEachern was a leading member of SWAT, a Ratepayers Association. Neither are neighbours of the Elderberry Hills property..Councillor Gallo proposed the item be deferred.
Staff responded there was no problem with a deferral. Council deferred the decision.
In the budget. we have a couple of items related to the new "Customer Service" plan recommended by staff. and adopted by Council.
A manager for customer service has been on the payroll for several months.
$120,000 is in the budget to change phone service to accommodate the new customer service A second item of $200,000 also relates .
Everything is in place, except evidence of a change in recognition of who are the customers of the Town of Aurora.
Not a glimmer or trace of understanding of the makings of a stakeholder,investor,client. taxpayer or customer.
Fees are horrendous. Red tape almost insurmountable. Deferral inevitable with the slightest whisper of opposition.
Customer Service?...A cruel joke.
Nothing but codswallop , meaningless claptrap and the swish of money siphoning down the drain.
It is how the budget was left on Monday evening.
On Tuesday evening, we had a couple of recommendations that relate to the budget.
One was advice from the Heritage Advisory Committee to approve a demolition permit for the George Browning house on Yonge Street.
Second was from staff to approve creation of two estate lots in the Elderberry Hill subdivision, the neighbourhood previously represented by S.W.A.T. a Ratepayers' Association.
Three votes opposed the demolition permit. The house is an eyesore. It stands empty,bedraggled and a blight on the street scape for the past several years.The owners planned a Montessori School on the site. Neighbours opposed the proposed access, recommended by staff, from a rear lane shared by all .and unbeknownst to the town but owned by the town .
Years have passed. Finally the project is at the point of movement.
The result will undoubtedly be a property currently receiving all municipal services; water, sewer,police protection,fire protection,snow plowing, parks,library; all the wonderful services provided by the Region of York including, I believe $270,000 a year salary for the chairperson. and contributing minimally to its share of the cost, will finally shoulder its share of the tax burden.
The difference in our tax base could potentially tally millions..
The owners followed all required steps in the process. Paid all fees Retained professionals to design plans and make presentations at multiple meetings .All for the privilege of investing resources in the Town of Aurora.
In every sense and reference, they are investors/stakeholders/clients/taxpayers and customers of the Town of Aurora.
The draft budget includes a couple of items related to a new "Customer Service" plan not requested by anyone but recommended by staff. Kinda like the Culture Centre.
We already have a manager of the new service.There's $120,000 in the budget to change the phone service to accommodate the plan. I believe another $200,000 is related. .
The second issue at Tuesday"s meeting was similar.. An empty acreage property in Elderberry Hills recommended by staff to be divided into two lots.
Since the subdivision was approved , the parcel has been vacant, producing minimal revenue . Receiving all town services mentioned above except water and sewers. At one time it was thought to have been set aside for a park and marked Open Space.
At some point hence, the municipality accepted cash -in-lieu of a park which freed the land for development.
A public planning meeting has been held. Meetings with neighbours. Work with staff. Experts hired by owner. Many man hours at town expense. . Application fees charged and paid . All steps directed, compliantly followed.
Two homes will range millions of dollars assessment for the town.
The owner also undoubtedly falls into the investor/stakeholder/client, customer/taxpayer class
In the budget, we have a couple of items related to the new "Customer Service" plan recommended by staff. We already have a manager of the new service ..There's $120,000 in the budget to change the phone service to accommodate the plan.I believe another $200,000 item is related. .
On Tuesday night, the evening following budget deliberations, three members of council voted against issuing a demolition permit for the Browning house to the investor/ stakeholder/client/customer/taxpayer of the Town
Councillor Pirri noted his "personal" choice was not to approve demolition.
The majority voted to defer approval of two estate lots in the Elderberry subdivision.
Councillor Gallo reported to Council, two residents had advised him they were not notified of the application. Former Councillor Evalina MacEachern was in the audience with a friend. Ms MacEachern was a leading member of SWAT, a Ratepayers Association. Neither are neighbours of the Elderberry Hills property..Councillor Gallo proposed the item be deferred.
Staff responded there was no problem with a deferral. Council deferred the decision.
In the budget. we have a couple of items related to the new "Customer Service" plan recommended by staff. and adopted by Council.
A manager for customer service has been on the payroll for several months.
$120,000 is in the budget to change phone service to accommodate the new customer service A second item of $200,000 also relates .
Everything is in place, except evidence of a change in recognition of who are the customers of the Town of Aurora.
Not a glimmer or trace of understanding of the makings of a stakeholder,investor,client. taxpayer or customer.
Fees are horrendous. Red tape almost insurmountable. Deferral inevitable with the slightest whisper of opposition.
Customer Service?...A cruel joke.
Nothing but codswallop , meaningless claptrap and the swish of money siphoning down the drain.
Wednesday, 18 January 2012
What Do They Say
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Fish or Cut Bait":
So, to recap: they're wrong, you're right. Got it.
Posted 4.05p.m.
****************************
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "You Can Prove Anything With Statistics":
100% correct...
For example 7.20% of the 2010 voters voted for Evelyn Buck... which means 92.8% did not.
Posted 4.09 p.m.
****************************
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "The Underlying Post":
"My humble offering"
*snorts* Yeah, good one!
Posted 4.03 p.m.
****************.
So, to recap: they're wrong, you're right. Got it.
Posted 4.05p.m.
****************************
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "You Can Prove Anything With Statistics":
100% correct...
For example 7.20% of the 2010 voters voted for Evelyn Buck... which means 92.8% did not.
Posted 4.09 p.m.
****************************
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "The Underlying Post":
"My humble offering"
*snorts* Yeah, good one!
Posted 4.03 p.m.
****************.
Fish or Cut Bait
Councillor Gallo frequently calls a point of order by what he considers my staring from the question in debate.
Councillor Pirri is adopting a similar habit.
From their perspcctive I understand their position.
On the oter hand from my perspective, my arguments are quite likely to be wide ranging. Simply. on the basis of knowledge and experience.
I can deliver substantially more support for my arguments in a relatively short time.
On the other hand Councillor Gallo spends a considerable mount of time articulating and tentatively
asking staff to provide him with answers and almost never geting to the point of presenting an argument let alone persuade others as to its merits.
Councillor Pirri is scacely more persuasive . He has little experience in being interrupted in the full flow
of an exhortation. He therefore as no sense of how it is e to be interrupted in full flight of oratory.
One of these days however , if either one ever arrives at the point of discovering the nature of debate, there may be an opportunity to provide them with that experience.
Councillor Pirri is adopting a similar habit.
From their perspcctive I understand their position.
On the oter hand from my perspective, my arguments are quite likely to be wide ranging. Simply. on the basis of knowledge and experience.
I can deliver substantially more support for my arguments in a relatively short time.
On the other hand Councillor Gallo spends a considerable mount of time articulating and tentatively
asking staff to provide him with answers and almost never geting to the point of presenting an argument let alone persuade others as to its merits.
Councillor Pirri is scacely more persuasive . He has little experience in being interrupted in the full flow
of an exhortation. He therefore as no sense of how it is e to be interrupted in full flight of oratory.
One of these days however , if either one ever arrives at the point of discovering the nature of debate, there may be an opportunity to provide them with that experience.
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