"Cowardice asks the question...is it safe? Expediency asks the question...is it politic? Vanity asks the question...is it popular? But conscience asks the question...is it right? And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but one must take it because it is right." ~Dr. Martin Luther King

Wednesday 12 December 2012

Circuitous Logic

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "The Road To Perdition":

"There are two staff members. Plus maintenance.
Cost to the taxpayers is $270,000 a year."

According to the Parks & Rec Director, $270, 0000 was the shortfall that the Town had to cover for the Seniors Centre. I think you need to add the salaries & benefits costs of the two Town staff persons, along with the building maintenance coats, to that $270 K total.

Also, the Seniors Centre provides facilities and programming for a specific niche group of residents aged 55+. The Cultural Centre demographic covers the whole age spectrum from young to old
**************
 If you think you can justify  putting the cost of culture on the backs of taxpayers,  I  understand why  feel the need to challenge figures provided  as  cost of operating the Senior's Centre.  
$270,000 is  the annual cost to taxpayers as provided by the Director of Leisure Services. 
The figure was given  several weeks ago during a budget discussion. Why on earth  do  you not understand that cost of operating a facility includes  the cost of operating  the  facility.
You are  not correct that  the Centre provides  services only  to  niche group. 
7,000 square feet  of the Centre is dedicated to Seniors . $7,000 square feet  is permitted  to other users.
There are 1371  members in the seniors club. They pay a membership of $20. annually. The town takes ,I  think, $18. of the  fee. 
Seniors manage  programs financially and they have a tidy sum in the bank. 
They're a canny group.

The library  can also be used as a comparator to  the Culture Centre.
The building has 44,000 square feet. Twenty full time staff and sixteen part time. They provide a multitude of services including an art gallery, writing clubs, computer workshops and programs too numerous to mention. 
Many falling under the heading of culture and  others with a more serious purpose.
There is no question of  community  support for  library services.
Library services weren't snuck in by the back door, stealing space and furnishings designed for a museum and paid for in  good part by funds raised  in the community for the purpose, plus  a $750,000 grant obtained for  specific needs of a museum.
Culture  Centre spending of tax dollars doesn't stand up well against the library either. Yet we have Councillors every year who feel compelled to reduce their budget. Even while they cant find enough ways to  hand money out the back door to people who are not accountable.   
Speaking of culture, the seniors centre has a room  for  sing-alongs and  such. 
Why did the Culture Centre feel compelled to  hi-jack the sing-along with free admission to fill their program schedule.
Will they go after seniors art classes next  and offer them free as well to make themselves look successful. . 
To the other poster;Sabotage has a particular meaning for people of my generation . It means secret ,furtive skulking about in the dark with explosives  designed to destroy enemy forces.  The French underground did their part in the second World War to defeat the enemy.
do  not  furtively engage in a campaign against the Culture Centre.
I  openly avow my opposition to the outrageous theft of the Aurora Museum.
I am not alone. 
People who don't care much about the museum are not enamoured about  purchase of culture any more than they support the idea of Councillors or staff buying booze on the town's tab.
So.. take that and that and that ...Supporter of  Socialist Culture  who must hide behind anonymous so  neighbours won't know who he is and what he stands for.        
       

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

Isn't that how we all cast our ballots, anonymously?

Anonymous said...

He's the unemployed Dung Bug who works at the Center as a volunteer in hopes that he will be rewarded in the next election. We have had him here for about 2 years, usually silent until the Center { deliberate incorrect spelling } enters the conversation. Does not deal with any other subject. Very narrow scope of interest. Doesn't like this Blog or any who use it. Maybe they pay him?

Anonymous said...

Because of ongoing financial woes, the Toronto District School Board had/ was forced to have a special audit which revealed how it could save money. Aurora requires one of those. I would bet money, the little I have, that the Centre would attract the attention of independent auditors. Maybe then we could get away from the entitled demanding more entitlements.

Anonymous said...

Talk about circuitous logic. Councillor Ballard demands a business plan for the Youth Centre. But he does not require one for the Culture Centre. Does he think he's a pretzel?

Anonymous said...

SLEEP ? Thank you so much !

Anonymous said...

Your analogy to the Library is not a valid one. You cannot compare it to the Culture Centre.

The Library is governed under the Province's Public Libraries Act. There is no similar legislation to govern how a municipality runs a culture centre, senior centre or youth centre.

As a member of the Library Board, you should know this.

Anonymous said...

Why hasn't anyone on Council ever discussed the Centre's budget and what they have delivered on in the past? Has the Town looked at their 2012 financials and program successes? Has the Town had a report as to what the “true” success of the Centre has been to date.

The programs are so heavily subsidized and yet still cost on average $10/hr to take any class. $10/hr for art classes for 4-6 year olds. I realize that Aurora may be an affluent town, but who is taking these classes and how many. I guess I’m not keeping ups with the “Joneses” if I am not sending my son/daughter to an Aurora Cultural Centre Art Class. Evening classes from the School board are nowhere near this price and I doubt the Senior Centre has those high charges either. I bet there’s some talented seniors at the Senior Centre who could teach those classes. (I’m not knocking the talent of the artists/musicians delivering the Centre’s classes they all have to make a living too. But the Centre’s business practice seems to be askew and that's what is still going forward).

Where's it come off that you need an agreement that goes to 2027? Where's the business plan for the future of the Centre? What’s happened to the Centre’s idea of qualifying for grants that was spoken about last year and why the Centre can't have Town involvement? And all the big talk of the future of the Centre. It seems like there's more people sitting on the Centre's Board than actually work there and delivering programs. And now there will be 2 Councillors sitting on the board bogging down the process either further. More upper management than workers.

Where's their incentive to grow and expand and deliver more? (Like they were talking about last year) They'll get their budget every year now from the Town and keep delivering at the same level with no worries and everyone involved will deem it a success. What are they going to do differently and better in the future?

Anonymous said...

Every service the municipal government, provincial government and the federal government provide is on the backs of the tax payer -- in Aurora, everything from hockey skating, parks recreation, roads , water -- yes everything. Why do you continue ad nauseum to point out that Cultural Srvices are being provided "on the backs of the taxpayer"? The people of Aurora deserve a local cultural program. I don't go to the National Gallery in Ottawa but my tax dollar supports it -- it enriches our country I am happy it's there!

Anonymous said...

Why hasn't anyone on Council ever discussed the Centre's budget and what they have delivered on in the past? Has the Town looked at their 2012 financials and program successes (quarterly reports, etc)? Has the Town had a report as to what the “true” success of the Centre has been to date. What has been the KPI’s to date?

The programs are so heavily subsidized and yet still cost on average $10/hr to take any class. $10/hr for art classes for 4-6 year olds. I realize that Aurora may be an affluent town, but who is taking these classes and how many. I guess I’m not keeping ups with the “Joneses” if I am not sending my son/daughter to an Aurora Cultural Centre Art Class. Evening classes from the School board are nowhere near this price and I doubt the Senior Centre has those high charges either. I bet there’s some talented seniors at the Senior Centre who could teach those classes. (I’m not knocking the talent of the artists/musicians delivering the Centre’s classes they all have to make a living too. But the Centre’s business practice seems to be askew and it’s going into the future agreement in the same manner).

Where's it come off that you need an agreement that goes to 2027? Where's the business plan for the future of the Centre? What’s happened to the Centre’s idea of qualifying for grants that was spoken about last year and why the Centre can't have Town involvement? And all the big talk of the future of the Centre. It seems like there's more people sitting on the Centre's Board than actually work there and deliver programs. And now there will be 2 Councillors sitting on the board bogging down the process either further. More upper management than workers.

Where's their incentive to grow and expand and deliver more? (Like they were talking about last year) They'll get their budget every year now from the Town and keep delivering at the same level with no worries and everyone involved will deem it a success. What are they going to do differently and better in the future?

Anonymous said...

10:20 AM
" The people in Aurora DESERVE a Culture Centre "
That is simply priceless! Like there were never programs for the arts in Aurora? And ' Culture would be dead " if the Culture Centre did not exist? Sorry to be laughing so hard at you. But your comment is absurd.

Anonymous said...

You're right, 9:50 AM (or would you prefer to be called Bruce?).

Anonymous said...

To 10:20 AM
OK . YOU deserve the culture. Do you mind if we try and manage to make the Centre contribute to the tax base for your entitlement? Or do they get a free ride with no regard to the economic reality of a busted province and dwindling local revenue?

Anonymous said...

5:53 PM
I sincerely hope you are not suggesting that Mr Cuthbert is preparing to deliver yet another series of angry lectures on Evelyn's Blog. Hopefully you refer to Robert The Bruce who is still missed. He was a lot of fun.

Anonymous said...

No, 7:58 PM, neither of those two - a totally different Bruce.

Anonymous said...

simply dropping by to say hey